Nan:2025-05-05-lcc-mass-deletion-nomod-2025
From Usenet Big-8 Management Board
From: Usenet Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org> Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals,news.groups Subject: 3rd RFD: Mass-deletion of moderated groups without a moderator (LAST CALL FOR COMMENTS) Followup-To: news.groups.proposals Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 13:52:41 EDT Message-ID: <vvatp0$ilh$1@reader1.panix.com> Archive-Name: mass-deletion-nomod-2025 REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following 89 moderated newsgroups. The Big-8 Management Board plans to begin voting on this proposal after five days. Please offer any final discussion or comments before the end of this waiting period. Voting may take up to one week (seven days); a result will be posted following the end of the voting period. RATIONALE: Currently, these groups cannot be used for discussion because of the lack of a moderator. Most of these groups haven't had a moderator for a long time and have been unused for years. We consider it unlikely that they will ever be revived with a new moderator. Nonetheless, anyone interested in becoming a moderator for a group listed in this RFD is invited to contact the Big-8 Management Board. DISCUSSION SO FAR: The following summary collates discussion from various venues, including news.groups.proposals, news.groups, news.admin.misc, and e-mails to the Big-8 Management Board. On changing the moderation flag for the groups: noel, Christian Schumacher, Vasos Panagiotopoulos, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com, and Dan Cross argued for having at least some groups' moderation flags unset rather than deleting the groups. Ivo Gandolfo countered that many servers would not properly apply the change in moderation flag. On making it easier to find active groups: Marco Moock said that cleaning up unused groups will make it easier for users to find active groups; he acknowledged that some servers don't process control articles but wondered why he should care about these servers. Julien ÉLIE said that people will appreciate a cleaned-up newsgroups list and that it doesn't matter if some servers don't process the control articles. Julius Bernotas said that groups should be deleted when they no longer fulfill their purpose. Jean-Paul agreed with Marco that cleaning up unused groups will make it easier for users to find active groups. Christian Schumacher said that he looks for newsgroups by name, not by traffic. noel argued that deleting a few hundred groups will not make it significantly easier to find active groups. Julien ÉLIE agreed and said that unmoderated groups should also be cleaned up. On the distribution of the RFD: Adam H. Kerman said that the RFD was not being distributed widely enough, including to potential moderators of the specific groups in the RFD. To the argument that removing unused groups makes active groups easier to find, he responded that users can find these via keyword search and by attempting to post to them. D expressed "no objections your honour" to the RFD, later noting that 10% of currently active newsgroups are moderated, but that the remaining 90% unmoderated active newsgroups are overrun by trolls and spam. Paul Schleck suggested a mechanism for crossposting a pointer to RFD to the affected groups. As a result of this discussion, the Board posted targeted pointers to the RFD in groups topically related to each one under discussion -- see the section DISTRIBUTION below. On losing the history associated with the groups: Steve Bonine warned that when groups are removed, the history associated with the contents of the group will disappear, which could hinder people doing (historical) research. He agreed that removing the unused groups in the RFD would prevent users from wasting their time posting into the void, but said that at this time it's not worth the effort to delete them. Winston and Keith Thompson shared Steve Bonine's concern about the contents of deleted groups disappearing. Computer Nerd Kev said that converting the groups to unmoderated ones may work around this problem. As a result of these discussions, Tristan Miller polled admins in news.admin.misc about how they handle rmgroup control messages and whether they retain postings in deleted groups. Ivo Gandolfo responded that he manually reviews most control messages, and for rmgroup messages simply converts the group to read-only. Thomas Hochstein responded that rmgroup messages are processed automatically by removing the group and all its posts. Thomas Hochstein and Julien ÉLIE indicated that servers set up as archival will not honour rmgroup messages and will not expire articles. On using a robomoderator to auto-approve posts: Rayner Lucas raised the possibility of placing some of the affected groups under automated robo-moderation, as a temporary measure. D Finnigan posted in support of this idea. Paul Schleck and noel expressed concerns that this could lead to auto-approval of spam or off-topic/illegal material, and therefore that setting this up would be too much effort for little reward. On specific groups: Computer Nerd Kev pointed out that rec.arts.movies.reviews has seen recent activity and sees a chance to revive it. (The Board subsequently investigated this and confirmed that the group has no moderation address registered; the sole active poster, who they were unable to reach for comment, seems to be circumventing this by posting articles with an Approved header to a lenient server.) The Board also received an e-mail from someone volunteering to moderate soc.genealogy.surnames.britain and is currently in correspondence with them. In light of these developments, rec.arts.movies.reviews and soc.genealogy.surnames.britain were excluded from the 2nd RFD. vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com, Marco Moock, and Dan Cross suggested converting comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica to an unmoderated group. It is therefore excluded from the LCC. Keith Thompson suggested that retaining comp.lang.c.moderated in order to preserve its posting history and/or to revive the group, provided there were enough demand. Keith Thompson contacted the previous moderator of comp.lang.c.moderated, who confirmed that he is too busy to resume moderating the group but is willing to hand it over to another moderator. Keith indicated that he would be willing to somehow help out with a revived group, and referred to discussions on comp.lang.c where other posters expressed interest in participating. Richard Heathfield likewise expressed interest. Dan Cross opined that the group should either be given a new moderator or deleted. comp.lang.c.moderated is therefore excluded from the LCC. Keith Thompson suggested retaining rec.humor.funny. Rayner Lucas contacted the most recent moderators, one of whom replied to express interest in keeping that group and/or rec.humor.funny.reruns going. Rayner Lucas and Tristan Miller both offered help with this. rec.humor.funny and rec.humor.funny.reruns are therefore excluded from the LCC. Florian Rehnisch indicated that comp.binaries.cbm would not be a big loss since the vast majority of Commodore binaries are archived on the web. Tristan Miller reported that someone has now volunteered to moderate the group, and that the current moderator has consented to the handover. comp.binaries.cbm is therefore excluded from the LCC. Ivan Shmakov expressed interest in moderating comp.newprod, comp.std.announce, rec.photo.moderated, and comp.simulation, and in participating in rec.arts.ascii, sci.bio.evolution, sci.bio.phytopathology, sci.chem.organic.synthesis, soc.politics, and soc.politics.marxism, were they to be somehow revived. Ivan also noted that soc.politics has been active recently, albeit with a forged Approved header. comp.newprod, comp.std.announce, rec.photo.moderated, and comp.simulation are therefore excluded from the LCC. tidux expressed interest in robomoderating rec.arts.anime.creative, and so it is excluded from the LCC. DISTRIBUTION: news.announce.newgroups news.groups.proposals news.groups Targeted notices of this proposal were also posted in groups topically related to each one under discussion, such as its parent group, its sibling *.misc group, and/or the *.misc group of some other ancestor. PROCEDURE: The Big-8 Management Board plans to begin voting on this proposal after five days. If there are specific reasons to vote individually for some groups, the Board will do so, but the default will be a ballot covering all groups. Please offer any final discussion or comments in the moderated group news.groups.proposals before the end of this waiting period. Voting may take up to one week (seven days); a result will be posted following the end of the voting period. More details can be found here: https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Mass_removal_of_groups NEWSGROUP LINES: comp.doc.techreports Lists of technical reports. (Moderated) comp.internet.library Discussing electronic libraries. (Moderated) comp.org.cauce The Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail. (Moderated) comp.robotics.research Academic, government & industry research in robotics. (Moderated) comp.sources.games Postings of recreational software. (Moderated) comp.sys.amiga.announce Announcements about the Amiga. (Moderated) comp.sys.sun.announce Sun announcements and Sunergy mailings. (Moderated) humanities.philosophy.objectivism The ideas of Ayn Rand. (Moderated) misc.activism.progressive Information for Progressive activists. (Moderated) misc.business.consulting The business of consulting. (Moderated) misc.business.marketing.moderated Roundtable for marketing topics. (Moderated) misc.business.moderated Roundtable for general business topics. (Moderated) misc.entrepreneurs.moderated Entrepreneur/business topics. (Moderated) misc.invest.financial-plan Financial planning in general. (Moderated) misc.transport.air-industry Airlines, airports, commercial aircraft. (Moderated) misc.writing.screenplays.moderated Craft/business of screenwriting. (Moderated) news.admin.net-abuse.policy Discussion of net abuse policy. (Moderated) news.announce.conferences Calls for papers and conferences. (Moderated) rec.arts.anime.info Announcements about Japanese animation. (Moderated) rec.arts.ascii ASCII art, info on archives, art, & artists. (Moderated) rec.arts.drwho.moderated Discussion of "Doctor Who". (Moderated) rec.arts.erotica Erotic fiction and verse. (Moderated) rec.arts.movies.erotica Aspects of erotic films and videos. (Moderated) rec.arts.sf.announce Major announcements of the SF world. (Moderated) rec.arts.sf.starwars.info General information pertaining to Star Wars. (Moderated) rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Discussion of Formula One racing. (Moderated) rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated NASCAR and Stockcar Racing. (Moderated) rec.boats.marketplace Boating products for sale and wanted. (Moderated) rec.crafts.jewelry Jewelry making and gemology. (Moderated) rec.drugs.announce Announcements about drugs and related issues. (Moderated) rec.food.cuisine.jewish All matters concerning Jewish cuisine. (Moderated) rec.food.recipes Recipes for interesting food and drink. (Moderated) rec.gardens.ecosystems Ecosystems and organic gardening. (Moderated) rec.martial-arts.moderated Martial-arts in general. (Moderated) rec.music.beatles.info Latest press notes about the Beatles. (Moderated) rec.music.beatles.moderated Fab Four analytical & investigative articles. (Moderated) rec.music.gaffa Discussion of Kate Bush & other alternative music. (Moderated) rec.music.info News and announcements on musical topics. (Moderated) rec.music.makers.guitar.tablature Guitar tablature and performance. (Moderated) rec.music.promotional Information and promo materials from record companies. (Moderated) rec.music.reviews Reviews of music of all genres and mediums. (Moderated) rec.pets.dogs.info General information and FAQs posted here. (Moderated) rec.pets.ferrets Forum on ferret care and husbandry. (Moderated) rec.skiing.alpine.moderated Alpine (downhill) skiing. (Moderated) rec.skiing.announce FAQ, competition results, automated snow reports. (Moderated) sci.aeronautics The science of aeronautics & related technology. (Moderated) sci.archaeology.moderated All aspects of archaeology. (Moderated) sci.bio.evolution Discussions of evolutionary biology. (Moderated) sci.bio.phytopathology All aspects of plant diseases and pests. (Moderated) sci.chem.organic.synthesis Synthetic organic chemistry related topics. (Moderated) sci.econ.research Research in all fields of economics. (Moderated) sci.med.orthopedics Orthopedic Surgery, related issues and management. (Moderated) sci.military.moderated Military technology. (Moderated) sci.nanotech Self-reproducing molecular-scale machines. (Moderated) sci.physics.foundations Fundamental and philosophical physics. (Moderated) sci.physics.strings String theory and related fields. (Moderated) sci.space.moderated Discussions about space related topics. (Moderated) sci.space.news Announcements of space-related news items. (Moderated) soc.adoption.adoptees Discussion of adoption by adoptees. (Moderated) soc.atheism Living as an atheist and atheism in society. (Moderated) soc.culture.african.american.moderated African-American perspectives. (Moderated) soc.culture.basque Basque culture and related issues. (Moderated) soc.culture.belarus All things about Belarus. (Moderated) soc.culture.hawaii Aloha kakou, E KOMO MAI! Eh, no forget hemo da shoes. (Moderated) soc.culture.indian.goa About Goa, India's smallest state. (Moderated) soc.culture.jewish.parenting Issues about raising Jewish children. (Moderated) soc.culture.kuwait.moderated Kuwaiti culture, society, and history. (Moderated) soc.culture.turkish.moderated Issues related to Turks/Turkey. (Moderated) soc.feminism Discussion of feminism & feminist issues. (Moderated) soc.genealogy.african Genealogy of Africa and the African Diaspora. (Moderated) soc.genealogy.surnames.canada Surnames queries - Canada. (Moderated) soc.genealogy.surnames.german Surnames queries - German speaking countries. (Moderated) soc.genealogy.surnames.global Surnames queries central database. (Moderated) soc.genealogy.surnames.misc Surnames - regions not covered elsewhere. (Moderated) soc.genealogy.surnames.usa Surnames queries - USA. (Moderated) soc.history.moderated All aspects of history. (Moderated) soc.personals Personal ads -- people in search of (ISO) others. (Moderated) soc.politics Political problems, systems, solutions. (Moderated) soc.politics.marxism Karl Marx and his legacy in theory and practice. (Moderated) soc.religion.asatru Following the Gods and Goddesses of Northern Europe. (Moderated) soc.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith. (Moderated) soc.religion.hindu Discussion about the Hindu dharma, philosophy, culture. (Moderated) soc.religion.mormon The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (Moderated) soc.religion.paganism Networking for Pagans. (Moderated) soc.religion.unitarian-univ Unitarian-Universalism & non-creedal religions. (Moderated) soc.sexuality.spanking Adult sexual spanking. (Moderated) soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Self-acceptance for fat people. (Moderated) soc.support.loneliness Mutual help and chat for those of us who feel alone. (Moderated) soc.support.youth.gay-lesbian-bi Gay youths helping each other. (Moderated) If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated group news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set on this message, so simply replying to this post should do the right thing. HISTORY OF THIS RFD: 2025-01-03: 1st RFD (remove) 2025-02-02: 2nd RFD (remove) rec.arts.movies.reviews excluded soc.genealogy.surnames.britain excluded 2025-03-11: 3rd RFD (remove) 2025-05-05: Final RFD / Last Call for Comments comp.binaries.cbm excluded comp.lang.c.moderated excluded comp.newprod excluded comp.simulation excluded comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica excluded comp.std.announce excluded rec.arts.anime.creative excluded rec.humor.funny excluded rec.humor.funny.reruns excluded rec.photo.moderated excluded -- Usenet Big-8 Management Board https://www.big-8.org/ board@big-8.org