Nan:2026-04-02-result-comp.unix.user-friendly

From: Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.user-friendly,news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals
Subject: RESULT: comp.unix.user-friendly will not be removed
Followup-To: news.groups.proposals
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2026 15:49:18 EDT
Message-ID: <10qmh01$e9i$1@reader2.panix.com>
Archive-Name: comp.unix.user-friendly

RESULT:

comp.unix.user-friendly will not be removed.

The Last Call for Comments (LCC) on 2026-03-20 initiated a five-day
period for final comments.  Following this comment period, the Big-8
Management Board has decided by a vote to remove the group
comp.unix.user-friendly.  The vote was 1 in favour of deletion, 1
against deletion, 1 abstaining, and 1 not voting.


DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
comp.unix.misc
comp.unix.user-friendly


PROPONENT: Marco Moock <mmoock@big-8.org>


RATIONALE:

Last activity in 2009
If there is need for discussion, more general groups can be used.


DISCUSSION SO FAR:

For discussions relating to the 1st RFD, please see the summary in the
2nd RFD at
<news:MPG.4382d871bfa8dd36989703@news.eternal-september.org>.

Discussions relating to the 2nd RFD took place in
news.groups.proposals and in news.groups. The discussion occurred
primarily in the threads in each group for "2nd RFD: Remove
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc and comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc", but many
responses were generally applicable to all groups under consideration
for removal, including the one in this RFD.

Arguments, suggestions, and observations put forward in response to
the 2nd RFD were:

- Removing unused groups will not increase participation in related
   groups, nor in Usenet as a whole. [sticks, Steve Bonine, Adam
   H. Kerman]

- Many sites won't list a group that has been rmgrouped, so group
   history will be inaccessible unless one knows the group existed and
   seeks out a provider that keeps the removed groups
   archived. [sticks, Steve Bonine]

- There is potential for inconsistency/confusion for users if some
   sites keep the group available and some don't. [Steve Bonine]

- There is no point to streamlining the list of newsgroups, as there
   are no new users coming in to Usenet who could usefully be funneled
   into a smaller list of groups. [Steve Bonine]

- It would be more useful to overhaul the whole Big-8, keeping only
   the active groups and combining unused or little-used groups with
   them. While this will not "save" Usenet, it would bring users
   together and encourage active discussions with more
   contributors. Something like this has happened in fr.* and nobody
   has asked to re-create the removed newsgroups. [Julien Élie]

- The topics of some groups are now obsolete. Other groups were split
   into sub-groups when the volume of discussion was much greater, and
   these could perhaps now be usefully recombined. [Dr Englebert
   Buxbaum]

- Large-scale consolidation of groups might work if users could be
   consolidated along with their subscribed groups, but it's more
   likely that they would just lose access to their old groups once the
   rmgroups were issued. Also, to have much effect, it would be
   necessary to remove a large majority of groups. [Matija Nalis]

- In a large-scale deletion, groups that are to be deleted could be
   left in place for a transitional period in order to redirect users
   to the best remaining group. [The True Melissa]

- The proposals overestimate the importance of the hierarchy
   administration, as the active newsgroups list merely tells news
   server administrators that, if they create a group on a given topic,
   they should use the canonical name given in the list.  [Adam
   H. Kerman]

- Hierarchy administration does benefit new operators installing
   Usenet servers, who ask for more accurate active files. [Todd
   M. McComb]

- Older Unix systems, possibly including those covered by the groups
   under discussion, may still be in use in the telephone industry or
   by individuals with old PCs. [David Chmelik]


GROUP:

comp.unix.user-friendly
Discussion of UNIX user-friendliness

Charter:
UNIX has a reputation of being unfriendly for non-programmers - making
it difficult to use by those who need not know Unix, such as the
average user in the commercial business world.  This group would be a
forum for discussion about UNIX user-friendliness and the availability
of user-friendly software for UNIX.

Presently, the above is done on an ad-hoc basis on a number of groups
such as comp.editors, comp.unix.questions, etc.  Posts presently
asking about user-friendly utilities/software for UNIX usually attract
some flamage and seem out of place in these groups, because of
non-obvious differences between friendliness of Unix towards
programmers and unfriendliness towards non-programmers.  This group
would give non-programming users a forum where their type of
"user-friendliness" is meant to be the norm, not the exception.

The following would be considered typical for this group:-

- To clarify definitions like "user-friendliness" for the relevant
groups of users.
- Discussion about what user friendly software (editors, utilites,
etc) are available for UNIX.
- Discussion/opinions about ways of making "default" UNIX user setups
more user-friendly.
- Announcements of new "user-friendly" software and utilities.
- Discussion on how UNIX and UNIX software could be made more friendly
without endangering the work methods of the Unix programmers who feel
Unix *is* already friendly for them.
- Discussion on what makes a particular part of UNIX or UNIX software
so unfriendly/friendly, and for which subgroup of users.

History:
comp.unix.user-friendly is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its
vote for creation by 280:87 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on
27 Sep 1993.


HISTORY OF THIS RFD:

2025-10-10: 1st RFD (remove)
2025-11-15: 2nd RFD (remove)
2026-03-20: Final RFD / Last Call for Comments
2026-04-02: Result: comp.unix.user-friendly will not be removed

-- 
Usenet Big-8 Management Board
https://www.big-8.org/
board@big-8.org

From: Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.user-friendly,news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.unix.user-friendly will not be removed
Followup-To: news.groups.proposals
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2026 21:26:14 EDT
Message-ID: <10qn4ul$86o$2@reader2.panix.com>
Archive-Name: comp.unix.user-friendly

On 2026-04-02 14:49, Big-8 Management Board wrote:
> RESULT:
> 
> comp.unix.user-friendly will not be removed.
> 
> The Last Call for Comments (LCC) on 2026-03-20 initiated a five-day
> period for final comments.  Following this comment period, the Big-8
> Management Board has decided by a vote to remove the group
> comp.unix.user-friendly.  The vote was 1 in favour of deletion, 1
> against deletion, 1 abstaining, and 1 not voting.


The sentence in the second paragraph should have read "...has decided by 
a vote not to remove the group...", in accordance with what's written in 
the line above it, in the Subject header, and in the History of this RFD 
section. Apologies for any confusion.

-- 
Usenet Big-8 Management Board
https://www.big-8.org/
board@big-8.org