https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2022-07-08-result-news.groups.proposals&feed=atom&action=historyNan:2022-07-08-result-news.groups.proposals - Revision history2024-03-28T11:28:28ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.39.4https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2022-07-08-result-news.groups.proposals&diff=3427&oldid=prevTristan Miller: Add Message-ID2022-07-08T14:42:06Z<p>Add Message-ID</p>
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</table>Tristan Millerhttps://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2022-07-08-result-news.groups.proposals&diff=3426&oldid=prevTristan Miller: RESULT: no change to news.groups.proposals2022-07-08T14:39:39Z<p>RESULT: no change to news.groups.proposals</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><pre><br />
From: Usenet Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org><br />
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 16:37:20 +0200<br />
Newsgroups: news.groups.proposals,news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,news.admin.hierarchies<br />
Archive-Name: news.groups.proposals<br />
Followup-To: news.groups.proposals<br />
Subject: RESULT: no change to news.groups.proposals<br />
<br />
RESULT<br />
<br />
No change will be made to the charter or moderation policy of <br />
news.groups.proposals.<br />
<br />
<br />
The Last Call for Comments (LCC) on 2022-06-27 initiated a five-day <br />
period for final comments on the proposal to suspend the charter and <br />
moderation policy of the Usenet newsgroup news.groups.proposals. <br />
Following this comment period, the Big-8 Management Board has decided by <br />
unanimous vote not to change the charter or moderation policy of <br />
news.groups.proposals.<br />
<br />
<br />
BACKGROUND<br />
<br />
The unmoderated news.groups newsgroup (formerly known as net.news.group) <br />
historically served as the main venue for discussion of potential new <br />
newsgroups. These discussions were sometimes difficult to follow due to <br />
noise, flames, sporgeries, poorly tagged or structured proposals, etc. <br />
As a result of these issues, the moderated group news.groups.proposals <br />
was created in November 2006. According to its creation RFD, the group <br />
was intended to serve as a "healthy environment where ideas can be <br />
raised, discussed, and developed" without the disruption of "personal <br />
attacks, flames, and other inappropriate content".<br />
<br />
news.groups.proposals now serves as the sole "official" venue for all <br />
discussions pertaining to existing or potential proposals to create, <br />
remove, or modify newsgroups in the Big-8 hierarchies (comp, humanities, <br />
misc, news, rec, sci, soc, and talk). What this means in practice is <br />
that while anyone is free to discuss RFDs elsewhere on Usenet, there is <br />
no guarantee that the Big-8 Management Board will monitor those discussions.<br />
<br />
<br />
PROPOSAL<br />
<br />
The Big-8 Management Board proposes to redesignate the unmoderated <br />
news.groups newsgroup as the sole "official" venue for all public <br />
discussions pertaining to existing or potential proposals to create, <br />
remove, or modify newsgroups in the Big-8 hierarchies. (Again, by <br />
"official" we mean only that the Board is guaranteed to monitor <br />
discussions there; users are of course free to hold discussions <br />
elsewhere.) The Board would update its public documentation relating to <br />
Big-8 workflows and policies accordingly, and the charter and moderation <br />
policy for news.groups.proposals would be indefinitely suspended. <br />
Thenceforth all submissions to news.groups.proposals would be <br />
automatically rejected with an explanatory note referring to the outcome <br />
of this RFD and with a suggestion to resubmit to news.groups.<br />
<br />
Provided news.groups remains a viable venue, the Board may eventually <br />
issue a subsequent RFD to remove news.groups.proposals. Otherwise, the <br />
Board may issue a subsequent RFD to restore the status quo ante.<br />
<br />
<br />
RATIONALE<br />
<br />
Since 2006, the Big-8 hierarchies have undergone an overall reduction in <br />
their active user base and article traffic. The news.groups newsgroup <br />
has followed this general trend; the past few years have seen some <br />
measure of spam and other off-topic messages, but little of the <br />
acrimonious content that was the main impetus behind the creation of <br />
news.groups.proposals. There is therefore reason to believe that <br />
news.groups could once again function as "a healthy environment" for the <br />
discussion of RFDs.<br />
<br />
By contrast, in the past few years news.groups.proposals has had <br />
problems of its own, mostly stemming from its convoluted and antiquated <br />
moderation system. Many submissions have gone missing or unnoticed by <br />
the moderators due to breakdowns in the submission pipeline. While the <br />
current Board members have been working to streamline and modernize the <br />
moderation system they inherited, and to put better fault detection and <br />
prevention measures in place, there is always the risk of further <br />
unexpected technical issues. Technical issues aside, the Board sees no <br />
need to act as gatekeepers for discussions that are, by and large, civil <br />
and constructive.<br />
<br />
Although it would be technically possible to designate both news.groups <br />
and news.groups.proposals as "co-official" venues for the discussion of <br />
RFDs, there are obvious benefits to keeping discussions centralized.<br />
<br />
<br />
DISCUSSION SO FAR<br />
<br />
D Finnigan argues that aside from occasional technical difficulties, <br />
news.groups.proposals is working fine, in contrast with news.groups, <br />
which is cluttered with off-topic posts. They recommend that the Board <br />
continue its work on improving the moderation system.<br />
<br />
Paul Schleck suspects that the off-topic spam posts to news.groups may <br />
be putting off people from posting there. He also wonders whether <br />
returning configging discussion to news.groups would provide people with <br />
an unrestricted forum to advance fallacious arguments about moderated <br />
newsgroups. Furthermore, he argues that the problems that led to the <br />
creation of news.groups.proposals could emerge again even in a smaller <br />
Usenet, and that the purely technical issues with moderation software <br />
are solvable.<br />
<br />
Computer Nerd Kev says that as long as there's still spam on <br />
news.groups, then keeping discussions moderated is worthwhile. They <br />
also draw attention to disruptive troll posting on alt.config.<br />
<br />
meff expresses concern about what would happen if the moderators became <br />
unavailable. Given the current posting levels and the ability of current <br />
users to filter messages, they tend to agree with the proposal in the RFD.<br />
<br />
Steve Bonine feels that the creation of news.groups.proposals was a <br />
"lesser of two evils" decision and that the group worked well for its <br />
intended purpose, but nowadays the volume in news.groups is vanishingly <br />
low, and so the concerns about the Board not wanting to follow <br />
discussions there no longer exist.<br />
<br />
Plain Text supports the proposal, since they find it easy to filter out <br />
the spam from news.groups, and in any case they favour a reduction in <br />
the number of newsgroups.<br />
<br />
Matija Nalis supports preserving the status quo because changing it (or <br />
more specifically, documenting and publicizing that change, and getting <br />
everyone to comply with it) is time-consuming and error-prone. He <br />
suggests technical improvements to avoid the previous moderation issues.<br />
<br />
<br />
FURTHER INFORMATION<br />
<br />
Home page for news.groups.proposals: <br />
<https://www.big-8.org/wiki/News.groups.proposals><br />
<br />
Charter for news.groups.proposals: <br />
<https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Charter_for_news.groups.proposals><br />
<br />
FAQ for news.groups.proposals: <br />
<https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions_for_news.groups.proposals><br />
<br />
Moderation policy for news.groups.proposals: <br />
<https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Moderation_policy_for_news.groups.proposals><br />
<br />
RFD for creation of news.groups.proposals: <br />
<https://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/news/news.groups.proposals><br />
<br />
General information on news.groups: <https://www.big-8.org/wiki/News.groups><br />
<br />
History of news.groups: <br />
<https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Big-8_Usenet_hierarchies#History_of_news.groups><br />
<br />
<br />
DISTRIBUTION<br />
<br />
This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:<br />
<br />
news.announce.newgroups<br />
news.groups.proposals<br />
news.groups<br />
news.admin.hierarchies<br />
<br />
<br />
PROPONENT<br />
<br />
Usenet Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org><br />
<br />
<br />
CHANGE HISTORY<br />
<br />
2022-05-20: 1st RFD<br />
2022-06-13: 2nd RFD<br />
2022-06-27: LCC<br />
2022-07-08: Result: no change to news.groups.proposals<br />
<br />
-- <br />
Usenet Big-8 Management Board<br />
https://www.big-8.org/<br />
board@big-8.org<br />
</pre></div>Tristan Miller