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	<title>Usenet Big-8 Management Board - User contributions [en]</title>
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	<updated>2026-04-29T17:00:07Z</updated>
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		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1921</id>
		<title>Big-8 Management FAQ</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1921"/>
		<updated>2011-10-07T11:05:20Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* May we change the charter of our newsgroup? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Identity and Structure of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who are you folks and what have you done with my newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We are the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]]--click on the [[b8mb|highlighted text]] to see the list of members on the Board.  We&#039;ve been given the task of rethinking how to manage the [[Checkgroups|official list for Big-8 newsgroups]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where did the Board come from? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The former moderators of news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) formed the Board to make suggestions about how to revise the management of the [[big8|Big-8 newsgroup hierarchies.]]  After a year on probation, the [[n.a.n.]] moderators confirmed the work that the Board had done and made the changes in the system permanent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Date&lt;br /&gt;
!Event&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-08-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/dcce81994da320dc?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source CFV for comp.databases.mysql] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/09ccd38e27bfd23f?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source comp.databases.mysql created by fiat] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/d00bc82420769448?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en RFD Process on Hold / Call for Ideas] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/f945d09ae0f2b62a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Initial plan for Advisory Board]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-31&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-11&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/78f59a941c51fbed?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Preliminary Volunteer List: Next Step] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e7be688fbf193f79?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Second Call for Votes] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-21&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Welcome to New Board Members] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/549b3ae2aaa19686?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en New Big-8 Board Chair, and Current Status] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-13&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b0605164c1546aba?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en We are the Big-8 Management Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.big-8.org www.big-8.org opened] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-04-18&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/57f67ae4fce01cdb?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Draft Creation System Outline] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-05-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/b2fa33037323ac9b?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Board Membership Policies / Test Run] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Big Eight Hierarchy Management Transition (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?hl=en&amp;amp;dmode=source A Personal Goodbye (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/de9d6df080896139?hl=en McComb&#039;s evaluation of the board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  (various)  &lt;br /&gt;
|[[Archived Announcements]] from the Board&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why do you call yourselves the &amp;quot;Management Board&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because we are taking care of eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html &amp;quot;managed hierarchies.&amp;quot;]  The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as alt.*  If all goes well, all changes in the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 groups]] will come as a result of control messages  sent by the Management Board.  The design philosophy of unmanaged hierarchies is that there is no central authority that can issue control messages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Mission of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What kind of groups belong in the Big-8? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Newsgroups whose names begin with one of these components: comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk.&lt;br /&gt;
* The collective namespace defined by these eight lists of newsgroups is what we mean by [[Big-8|&amp;quot;the Big-8&amp;quot;]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== No, what I meant was &amp;quot;what kind of groups are you willing to create in the Big-8&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Groups that, in the judgment of the Board, are well-named and seem likely to be well-used.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are some kinds of proposals that the Board is [[discouraged|reluctant to consider]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-named&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The proposed name&#039;s spelling and syntax should fit in with the [[Names|traditional standards for Usenet and the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[Content_and_Format_of_a_Request_for_Discussion_(RFD)#5._Charter|charter]] of the group should be consistent with the name of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-used&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We mean that there are, as a general rule, a reasonable number of on-topic posts in the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* At the negative end of the scale, it is clear that a group that has no on-topic posts for a long time is not being well-used.  Such groups may be [[Rmgroup|removed]] from the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 newsgroups]] if, in the judgment of the Board, they are dead and do not have any likelihood of being revived.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where do I go if I want an alt.* group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.config?hl=en|google alt.config]&lt;br /&gt;
* [news:alt.config news:alt.config ]&lt;br /&gt;
* For more information, see [[other_hierarchies|this discussion]] of other Usenet hierarchies, including alt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why isn&#039;t the newsgroup I want to read available through my news service? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Every news administrator decides what groups to carry and what groups not to carry.  You will have to contact your [NSP|news service provider (NSP)]] directly to find out why some groups are not carried.  The Board would be happy to work with you and your NSP to see that the group is [[compliance|correctly configured]] on the news server so that posts made on the server circulate to all other servers that carry the big-8 and so that all posts made on all such servers appear on your news server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Newsgroup Charters ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is a newsgroup charter? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a brief description of the purpose and scope of a newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
* Every Request for Discussion (RFD) for a new newsgroup must have some kind of charter.  See point 5 on the [[RFD|description of the contents of an RFD]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Will the board make the people in our newsgroup obey the charter of the group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why not? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* There are too many newsgroups--and too many disagreements about the meaning of charters!--for the board to become involved.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no way to identify who &amp;quot;the people in our newsgroup&amp;quot; are.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism in NNTP to enforce punishments on people who refuse to follow the charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism to erase old charters and replace them with new charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Except for moderated groups (a whole different kettle of fish), newsgroups have no &amp;quot;owners&amp;quot; who can impose and enforce charters or changes in charters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So what good are the @#$%*&amp;amp; charters anyway? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The charters in RFDs help people decide whether a group should be created.  &lt;br /&gt;
* If the group is created, the charter provides some kind of touchstone for the original purpose and scope of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== May we change the charter of our newsgroup? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, in practice.  A newsgroup is whatever the participants make of it.&lt;br /&gt;
* No, not in the [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/ ISC archives].  The original charter is contained in the control message that creates the group.  The ISC collects those control messages in their archive.  There is no method at present to change the archives.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, by convention.  The last (signed) control message in the archive might overrule all predecessors.  This convention is used in &#039;&#039;de.*&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Board Policies ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How does the Board make decisions? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We discuss things among ourselves on a private mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
* When necessary, we take a vote using these [[Board Voting Policies|general guidelines]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How are new members added to the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We [[Adding members|ask for volunteers]], then vote on who will become a member.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the terms of office? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Membership|Roughly 18 months (renewable).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board conduct its discussions in public? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Publishing the transcript of the discussions would invite commentary, which would mean that everything any member said would have to be publicly explained and defended.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Keeping the discussion private allows us to speak our minds freely, both about issues and about persons involved in the issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can I join the Board mailing list? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not unless you&#039;re a [[b8mb|member of the Board]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How can I discuss things with the Board publicly or privately? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Publicly:&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.proposals about a particular proposal.&lt;br /&gt;
* Privately: Send email to [mailto:board@big-8.org board@big-8.org], which will go to the whole Board.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board reveal how its members voted? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We do not see any use for that information other than to make the members of the Board targets of ridicule and harassment.  We would be willing to tolerate the additional abuse if we felt that there was some benefit in posting individual votes, but we don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
* Who voted which way is not important; what is important is &#039;&#039;why&#039;&#039; Board members voted the way they did.  That is made clear during the discussion of a proposal in news.groups and/or news.groups.proposals.  Members of the Board actively participate in those discussions and share their reasons for supporting or opposing proposals.  All that would be accomplished by restating these reasons when announcing the Board&#039;s decision would be to spark useless repetition of discussion that has already taken place.&lt;br /&gt;
* Once a decision is reached by the Board, it is the decision of the entire Board, not its individual members, and the Board should unite in supporting its implementation.  Posting the votes of individual Board members who opposed the final decision would serve to divide rather than unite and hence would obstruct the implementation of the decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are there unwritten rules that the Board follows? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the unwritten rules? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I can&#039;t tell you.  They&#039;re, uh, unwritten.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you write them down? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because they are matters of common sense, netiquette, politesse, sound reasoning, and the like.  They are things that &amp;quot;go without saying,&amp;quot; so we don&#039;t say them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Do all the members of the Board speak for the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It depends on the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
* Each member of the Board wears two or more [[The Apache Software Foundation&#039;s Concept of &amp;quot;Hats&amp;quot;|&amp;quot;hats&amp;quot;]].  Each member is encouraged to participate in news.groups as an individual, expressing his or her own views of the topics being discussed.  Such personal opinions ought not to be attributed to the Board as a whole, unless the member is reporting or commenting on a policy or decision that has been formally enacted by the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Board members may also serve on committees of the Board ([[volunteer|Group Mentors, Dead Groups Task Force, UVP, etc.]]), thus picking up another hat to wear when posting in news.groups or elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you require all Board members to vote? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s impossible to know who is and who is not available to vote once a vote begins.  Stuff happens (e.g., tale&#039;s motorcycle accident) and sometimes people get busy with The Rest of Life (tm).  If enough members of the Board participate in the vote so that a motion is decided, that is sufficient for our purposes.  If we were meeting face-to-face instead of conducting votes through e-mail, we would, of course, expect all present to vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;enough members&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* That is spelled out in the ninth point of the [[Board Voting Policies|internal voting policies]] that we have adopted: &amp;quot;A vote requires at least half of the active members voting or explicitly abstaining in order to be decisive.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Miscellaneous Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is all that ugly stuff in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Somebody doesn&#039;t like us.  They forge a huge stream of very offensive posts to try do drown out the conversation.  Some people call the spew of forged posts &amp;quot;sporgery.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can&#039;t you stop them? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  [[usenet|Usenet]] is a loose confederation of news servers that spans the globe.  There is no central administration.  Access to each of the myriad of news servers is given by the administrator of each independent server.  No one can tell a news adminstrator how to run his or her news server.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If you wish to have a more highly structured and controlled environment, you might try to resurrect [http://www.usenet2.org/ Usenet II].  For now, the Big-8 newsgroups exist in the quasi-chaotic universe of Usenet I.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t they like you? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You&#039;ll have to ask the sporger that.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A regular in news.groups wrote: &amp;quot;While it appears most of the dissenters in here are decent people with differing points of view ... , there are some who would cheerfully leave the place a smoldering crater if it isn&#039;t run their way.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are board members required to read everything in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  The members of the board are free to read as much or as little of the traffic in news.group according to their own taste and temperament.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Suppose someone wants to discuss big-8 policy in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* They may.  It is an unmoderated group that has a [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|long history]] of policy discussions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What if I want to make sure the board sees my proposal? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Use a helpful subject line.&lt;br /&gt;
* [mailto:board@big-8.org E-mail the board] about the thread you have started.&lt;br /&gt;
* Crosspost to [[news.groups.proposals]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What&#039;s a wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A set of pages that can be quickly created and easily modified by a group of people.  [[wp&amp;gt;Wiki|&amp;quot;Wiki&amp;quot;]] is Hawaiian for &amp;quot;quick.&amp;quot;  See the bottom of each page for a link to [[wiki:dokuwiki|DokuWiki]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Aren&#039;t wikis supposed to allow anyone and everyone to contribute? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, that was the original theory on the original wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So this is not a &#039;&#039;real&#039;&#039; wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who is skirv?  ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Tim Skirvin, was chair of the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]] from 2006-2008.  For more on spaf, tale, Russ, and skirv, see the [[Big-8|history of the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why are you using a web site instead of newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Web sites are a tool that can be used to improve the understanding and functioning of newsgroups.  They are easily searched and can be maintained as a repository of useful information.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The web site is a backup for communicating through newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is a high signal-to-noise ratio in a static environment.&lt;br /&gt;
* The site acts as a possible entry port for web surfers to become interested in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a standard tool used in hierarchy administration: &amp;quot;Have a web site. Try to make sure that the URL for your hierarchy web site is stable and doesn&#039;t change, since the URL makes it into various FAQs and configuration files that live for years. Put all of the hierarchy information on the web site, and make sure that the web site stays up to date&amp;quot; ([http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ]).&lt;br /&gt;
* The Web site / Wiki model is more effective than a newsgroup for publishing or consuming certain kinds of content, including the content of this site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Yes, but shouldn&#039;t stuff about Usenet stay on Usenet? ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point of view that Usenet should not rely on any outside communication medium made more sense when the Usenet could reasonably be considered separate from the Internet.  Although it is still possible to transmit and receive Usenet traffic without using the Internet, in reality the vast majority of Usenet readers and servers work over the Internet, and the number of Usenet users and administrators who do not have access to the Internet and the Web is vanishingly small.  As such, it is appropriate to consider the Usenet part of the vast tapestry of Internet communication media, and it is therefore appropriate to take advantage of other pieces of that tapestry when doing so enhances and/or simplifies the Usenet administration process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How Do You Pronounce &amp;quot;B8MB&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I say &amp;quot;8-Bomb.&amp;quot;  Others tackle it differently.  &amp;quot;Bembi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bambi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bait &#039;em&amp;quot;?    There is a small cottage industry devoted to multiplying nicknames for the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why Do You Have So Many Committees? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Not all of the Board members are equally talented or equally interested in the tasks required to manage the business of the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Many hands make light work (sometimes).&lt;br /&gt;
* We&#039;re hoping to make more room for people to [[volunteer|volunteer their time and talent]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Links ==&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
Pages in This Site &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[b8mb|Current Board Members]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big-8|Short history of the Big-8]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Links|Other Usenet Links]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Glossary]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Classic FAQs &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ Internet FAQ Archives] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1920</id>
		<title>Big-8 Management FAQ</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1920"/>
		<updated>2011-10-07T10:51:47Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Identity and Structure of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who are you folks and what have you done with my newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We are the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]]--click on the [[b8mb|highlighted text]] to see the list of members on the Board.  We&#039;ve been given the task of rethinking how to manage the [[Checkgroups|official list for Big-8 newsgroups]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where did the Board come from? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The former moderators of news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) formed the Board to make suggestions about how to revise the management of the [[big8|Big-8 newsgroup hierarchies.]]  After a year on probation, the [[n.a.n.]] moderators confirmed the work that the Board had done and made the changes in the system permanent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Date&lt;br /&gt;
!Event&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-08-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/dcce81994da320dc?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source CFV for comp.databases.mysql] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/09ccd38e27bfd23f?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source comp.databases.mysql created by fiat] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/d00bc82420769448?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en RFD Process on Hold / Call for Ideas] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/f945d09ae0f2b62a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Initial plan for Advisory Board]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-31&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-11&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/78f59a941c51fbed?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Preliminary Volunteer List: Next Step] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e7be688fbf193f79?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Second Call for Votes] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-21&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Welcome to New Board Members] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/549b3ae2aaa19686?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en New Big-8 Board Chair, and Current Status] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-13&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b0605164c1546aba?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en We are the Big-8 Management Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.big-8.org www.big-8.org opened] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-04-18&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/57f67ae4fce01cdb?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Draft Creation System Outline] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-05-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/b2fa33037323ac9b?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Board Membership Policies / Test Run] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Big Eight Hierarchy Management Transition (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?hl=en&amp;amp;dmode=source A Personal Goodbye (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/de9d6df080896139?hl=en McComb&#039;s evaluation of the board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  (various)  &lt;br /&gt;
|[[Archived Announcements]] from the Board&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why do you call yourselves the &amp;quot;Management Board&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because we are taking care of eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html &amp;quot;managed hierarchies.&amp;quot;]  The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as alt.*  If all goes well, all changes in the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 groups]] will come as a result of control messages  sent by the Management Board.  The design philosophy of unmanaged hierarchies is that there is no central authority that can issue control messages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Mission of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What kind of groups belong in the Big-8? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Newsgroups whose names begin with one of these components: comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk.&lt;br /&gt;
* The collective namespace defined by these eight lists of newsgroups is what we mean by [[Big-8|&amp;quot;the Big-8&amp;quot;]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== No, what I meant was &amp;quot;what kind of groups are you willing to create in the Big-8&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Groups that, in the judgment of the Board, are well-named and seem likely to be well-used.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are some kinds of proposals that the Board is [[discouraged|reluctant to consider]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-named&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The proposed name&#039;s spelling and syntax should fit in with the [[Names|traditional standards for Usenet and the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[Content_and_Format_of_a_Request_for_Discussion_(RFD)#5._Charter|charter]] of the group should be consistent with the name of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-used&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We mean that there are, as a general rule, a reasonable number of on-topic posts in the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* At the negative end of the scale, it is clear that a group that has no on-topic posts for a long time is not being well-used.  Such groups may be [[Rmgroup|removed]] from the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 newsgroups]] if, in the judgment of the Board, they are dead and do not have any likelihood of being revived.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where do I go if I want an alt.* group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.config?hl=en|google alt.config]&lt;br /&gt;
* [news:alt.config news:alt.config ]&lt;br /&gt;
* For more information, see [[other_hierarchies|this discussion]] of other Usenet hierarchies, including alt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why isn&#039;t the newsgroup I want to read available through my news service? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Every news administrator decides what groups to carry and what groups not to carry.  You will have to contact your [NSP|news service provider (NSP)]] directly to find out why some groups are not carried.  The Board would be happy to work with you and your NSP to see that the group is [[compliance|correctly configured]] on the news server so that posts made on the server circulate to all other servers that carry the big-8 and so that all posts made on all such servers appear on your news server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Newsgroup Charters ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is a newsgroup charter? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a brief description of the purpose and scope of a newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
* Every Request for Discussion (RFD) for a new newsgroup must have some kind of charter.  See point 5 on the [[RFD|description of the contents of an RFD]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Will the board make the people in our newsgroup obey the charter of the group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why not? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* There are too many newsgroups--and too many disagreements about the meaning of charters!--for the board to become involved.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no way to identify who &amp;quot;the people in our newsgroup&amp;quot; are.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism in NNTP to enforce punishments on people who refuse to follow the charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism to erase old charters and replace them with new charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Except for moderated groups (a whole different kettle of fish), newsgroups have no &amp;quot;owners&amp;quot; who can impose and enforce charters or changes in charters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So what good are the @#$%*&amp;amp; charters anyway? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The charters in RFDs help people decide whether a group should be created.  &lt;br /&gt;
* If the group is created, the charter provides some kind of touchstone for the original purpose and scope of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== May we change the charter of our newsgroup? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, in practice.  A newsgroup is whatever the participants make of it.&lt;br /&gt;
* No, not in the [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control ISC archives].  The original charter is contained in the control message that creates the group.  The ISC collects those control messages in their archive.  There is no method at present to change the archives.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, by convention.  The last (signed) control message in the archive might overrule all predecessors.  This convention is used in &#039;&#039;de.*&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Board Policies ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How does the Board make decisions? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We discuss things among ourselves on a private mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
* When necessary, we take a vote using these [[Board Voting Policies|general guidelines]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How are new members added to the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We [[Adding members|ask for volunteers]], then vote on who will become a member.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the terms of office? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Membership|Roughly 18 months (renewable).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board conduct its discussions in public? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Publishing the transcript of the discussions would invite commentary, which would mean that everything any member said would have to be publicly explained and defended.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Keeping the discussion private allows us to speak our minds freely, both about issues and about persons involved in the issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can I join the Board mailing list? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not unless you&#039;re a [[b8mb|member of the Board]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How can I discuss things with the Board publicly or privately? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Publicly:&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.proposals about a particular proposal.&lt;br /&gt;
* Privately: Send email to [mailto:board@big-8.org board@big-8.org], which will go to the whole Board.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board reveal how its members voted? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We do not see any use for that information other than to make the members of the Board targets of ridicule and harassment.  We would be willing to tolerate the additional abuse if we felt that there was some benefit in posting individual votes, but we don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
* Who voted which way is not important; what is important is &#039;&#039;why&#039;&#039; Board members voted the way they did.  That is made clear during the discussion of a proposal in news.groups and/or news.groups.proposals.  Members of the Board actively participate in those discussions and share their reasons for supporting or opposing proposals.  All that would be accomplished by restating these reasons when announcing the Board&#039;s decision would be to spark useless repetition of discussion that has already taken place.&lt;br /&gt;
* Once a decision is reached by the Board, it is the decision of the entire Board, not its individual members, and the Board should unite in supporting its implementation.  Posting the votes of individual Board members who opposed the final decision would serve to divide rather than unite and hence would obstruct the implementation of the decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are there unwritten rules that the Board follows? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the unwritten rules? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I can&#039;t tell you.  They&#039;re, uh, unwritten.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you write them down? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because they are matters of common sense, netiquette, politesse, sound reasoning, and the like.  They are things that &amp;quot;go without saying,&amp;quot; so we don&#039;t say them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Do all the members of the Board speak for the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It depends on the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
* Each member of the Board wears two or more [[The Apache Software Foundation&#039;s Concept of &amp;quot;Hats&amp;quot;|&amp;quot;hats&amp;quot;]].  Each member is encouraged to participate in news.groups as an individual, expressing his or her own views of the topics being discussed.  Such personal opinions ought not to be attributed to the Board as a whole, unless the member is reporting or commenting on a policy or decision that has been formally enacted by the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Board members may also serve on committees of the Board ([[volunteer|Group Mentors, Dead Groups Task Force, UVP, etc.]]), thus picking up another hat to wear when posting in news.groups or elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you require all Board members to vote? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s impossible to know who is and who is not available to vote once a vote begins.  Stuff happens (e.g., tale&#039;s motorcycle accident) and sometimes people get busy with The Rest of Life (tm).  If enough members of the Board participate in the vote so that a motion is decided, that is sufficient for our purposes.  If we were meeting face-to-face instead of conducting votes through e-mail, we would, of course, expect all present to vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;enough members&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* That is spelled out in the ninth point of the [[Board Voting Policies|internal voting policies]] that we have adopted: &amp;quot;A vote requires at least half of the active members voting or explicitly abstaining in order to be decisive.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Miscellaneous Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is all that ugly stuff in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Somebody doesn&#039;t like us.  They forge a huge stream of very offensive posts to try do drown out the conversation.  Some people call the spew of forged posts &amp;quot;sporgery.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can&#039;t you stop them? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  [[usenet|Usenet]] is a loose confederation of news servers that spans the globe.  There is no central administration.  Access to each of the myriad of news servers is given by the administrator of each independent server.  No one can tell a news adminstrator how to run his or her news server.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If you wish to have a more highly structured and controlled environment, you might try to resurrect [http://www.usenet2.org/ Usenet II].  For now, the Big-8 newsgroups exist in the quasi-chaotic universe of Usenet I.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t they like you? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You&#039;ll have to ask the sporger that.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A regular in news.groups wrote: &amp;quot;While it appears most of the dissenters in here are decent people with differing points of view ... , there are some who would cheerfully leave the place a smoldering crater if it isn&#039;t run their way.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are board members required to read everything in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  The members of the board are free to read as much or as little of the traffic in news.group according to their own taste and temperament.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Suppose someone wants to discuss big-8 policy in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* They may.  It is an unmoderated group that has a [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|long history]] of policy discussions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What if I want to make sure the board sees my proposal? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Use a helpful subject line.&lt;br /&gt;
* [mailto:board@big-8.org E-mail the board] about the thread you have started.&lt;br /&gt;
* Crosspost to [[news.groups.proposals]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What&#039;s a wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A set of pages that can be quickly created and easily modified by a group of people.  [[wp&amp;gt;Wiki|&amp;quot;Wiki&amp;quot;]] is Hawaiian for &amp;quot;quick.&amp;quot;  See the bottom of each page for a link to [[wiki:dokuwiki|DokuWiki]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Aren&#039;t wikis supposed to allow anyone and everyone to contribute? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, that was the original theory on the original wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So this is not a &#039;&#039;real&#039;&#039; wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who is skirv?  ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Tim Skirvin, was chair of the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]] from 2006-2008.  For more on spaf, tale, Russ, and skirv, see the [[Big-8|history of the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why are you using a web site instead of newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Web sites are a tool that can be used to improve the understanding and functioning of newsgroups.  They are easily searched and can be maintained as a repository of useful information.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The web site is a backup for communicating through newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is a high signal-to-noise ratio in a static environment.&lt;br /&gt;
* The site acts as a possible entry port for web surfers to become interested in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a standard tool used in hierarchy administration: &amp;quot;Have a web site. Try to make sure that the URL for your hierarchy web site is stable and doesn&#039;t change, since the URL makes it into various FAQs and configuration files that live for years. Put all of the hierarchy information on the web site, and make sure that the web site stays up to date&amp;quot; ([http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ]).&lt;br /&gt;
* The Web site / Wiki model is more effective than a newsgroup for publishing or consuming certain kinds of content, including the content of this site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Yes, but shouldn&#039;t stuff about Usenet stay on Usenet? ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point of view that Usenet should not rely on any outside communication medium made more sense when the Usenet could reasonably be considered separate from the Internet.  Although it is still possible to transmit and receive Usenet traffic without using the Internet, in reality the vast majority of Usenet readers and servers work over the Internet, and the number of Usenet users and administrators who do not have access to the Internet and the Web is vanishingly small.  As such, it is appropriate to consider the Usenet part of the vast tapestry of Internet communication media, and it is therefore appropriate to take advantage of other pieces of that tapestry when doing so enhances and/or simplifies the Usenet administration process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How Do You Pronounce &amp;quot;B8MB&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I say &amp;quot;8-Bomb.&amp;quot;  Others tackle it differently.  &amp;quot;Bembi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bambi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bait &#039;em&amp;quot;?    There is a small cottage industry devoted to multiplying nicknames for the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why Do You Have So Many Committees? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Not all of the Board members are equally talented or equally interested in the tasks required to manage the business of the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Many hands make light work (sometimes).&lt;br /&gt;
* We&#039;re hoping to make more room for people to [[volunteer|volunteer their time and talent]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Links ==&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
Pages in This Site &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[b8mb|Current Board Members]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big-8|Short history of the Big-8]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Links|Other Usenet Links]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Glossary]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Classic FAQs &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ Internet FAQ Archives] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1919</id>
		<title>Big-8 Management FAQ</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1919"/>
		<updated>2011-10-07T10:49:42Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* May we change the charter of our newsgroup? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Identity and Structure of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who are you folks and what have you done with my newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We are the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]]--click on the [[b8mb|highlighted text]] to see the list of members on the Board.  We&#039;ve been given the task of rethinking how to manage the [[Checkgroups|official list for Big-8 newsgroups]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where did the Board come from? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The former moderators of news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) formed the Board to make suggestions about how to revise the management of the [[big8|Big-8 newsgroup hierarchies.]]  After a year on probation, the [[n.a.n.]] moderators confirmed the work that the Board had done and made the changes in the system permanent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Date&lt;br /&gt;
!Event&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-08-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/dcce81994da320dc?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source CFV for comp.databases.mysql] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/09ccd38e27bfd23f?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source comp.databases.mysql created by fiat] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/d00bc82420769448?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en RFD Process on Hold / Call for Ideas] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/f945d09ae0f2b62a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Initial plan for Advisory Board]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-31&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-11&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/78f59a941c51fbed?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Preliminary Volunteer List: Next Step] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e7be688fbf193f79?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Second Call for Votes] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-21&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Welcome to New Board Members] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/549b3ae2aaa19686?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en New Big-8 Board Chair, and Current Status] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-13&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b0605164c1546aba?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en We are the Big-8 Management Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.big-8.org www.big-8.org opened] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-04-18&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/57f67ae4fce01cdb?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Draft Creation System Outline] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-05-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/b2fa33037323ac9b?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Board Membership Policies / Test Run] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Big Eight Hierarchy Management Transition (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?hl=en&amp;amp;dmode=source A Personal Goodbye (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/de9d6df080896139?hl=en McComb&#039;s evaluation of the board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  (various)  &lt;br /&gt;
|[[Archived Announcements]] from the Board&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why do you call yourselves the &amp;quot;Management Board&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because we are taking care of eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|&amp;quot;managed hierarchies.&amp;quot;]  The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as alt.*  If all goes well, all changes in the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 groups]] will come as a result of control messages  sent by the Management Board.  The design philosophy of unmanaged hierarchies is that there is no central authority that can issue control messages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Mission of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What kind of groups belong in the Big-8? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Newsgroups whose names begin with one of these components: comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk.&lt;br /&gt;
* The collective namespace defined by these eight lists of newsgroups is what we mean by [[Big-8|&amp;quot;the Big-8&amp;quot;]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== No, what I meant was &amp;quot;what kind of groups are you willing to create in the Big-8&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Groups that, in the judgment of the Board, are well-named and seem likely to be well-used.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are some kinds of proposals that the Board is [[discouraged|reluctant to consider]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-named&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The proposed name&#039;s spelling and syntax should fit in with the [[Names|traditional standards for Usenet and the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[Content_and_Format_of_a_Request_for_Discussion_(RFD)#5._Charter|charter]] of the group should be consistent with the name of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-used&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We mean that there are, as a general rule, a reasonable number of on-topic posts in the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* At the negative end of the scale, it is clear that a group that has no on-topic posts for a long time is not being well-used.  Such groups may be [[Rmgroup|removed]] from the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 newsgroups]] if, in the judgment of the Board, they are dead and do not have any likelihood of being revived.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where do I go if I want an alt.* group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.config?hl=en|google alt.config]&lt;br /&gt;
* [news:alt.config news:alt.config ]&lt;br /&gt;
* For more information, see [[other_hierarchies|this discussion]] of other Usenet hierarchies, including alt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why isn&#039;t the newsgroup I want to read available through my news service? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Every news administrator decides what groups to carry and what groups not to carry.  You will have to contact your [NSP|news service provider (NSP)]] directly to find out why some groups are not carried.  The Board would be happy to work with you and your NSP to see that the group is [[compliance|correctly configured]] on the news server so that posts made on the server circulate to all other servers that carry the big-8 and so that all posts made on all such servers appear on your news server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Newsgroup Charters ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is a newsgroup charter? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a brief description of the purpose and scope of a newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
* Every Request for Discussion (RFD) for a new newsgroup must have some kind of charter.  See point 5 on the [[RFD|description of the contents of an RFD]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Will the board make the people in our newsgroup obey the charter of the group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why not? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* There are too many newsgroups--and too many disagreements about the meaning of charters!--for the board to become involved.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no way to identify who &amp;quot;the people in our newsgroup&amp;quot; are.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism in NNTP to enforce punishments on people who refuse to follow the charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism to erase old charters and replace them with new charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Except for moderated groups (a whole different kettle of fish), newsgroups have no &amp;quot;owners&amp;quot; who can impose and enforce charters or changes in charters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So what good are the @#$%*&amp;amp; charters anyway? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The charters in RFDs help people decide whether a group should be created.  &lt;br /&gt;
* If the group is created, the charter provides some kind of touchstone for the original purpose and scope of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== May we change the charter of our newsgroup? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, in practice.  A newsgroup is whatever the participants make of it.&lt;br /&gt;
* No, not in the [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control ISC archives].  The original charter is contained in the control message that creates the group.  The ISC collects those control messages in their archive.  There is no method at present to change the archives.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, by convention.  The last (signed) control message in the archive might overrule all predecessors.  This convention is used in &#039;&#039;de.*&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Board Policies ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How does the Board make decisions? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We discuss things among ourselves on a private mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
* When necessary, we take a vote using these [[Board Voting Policies|general guidelines]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How are new members added to the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We [[Adding members|ask for volunteers]], then vote on who will become a member.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the terms of office? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Membership|Roughly 18 months (renewable).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board conduct its discussions in public? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Publishing the transcript of the discussions would invite commentary, which would mean that everything any member said would have to be publicly explained and defended.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Keeping the discussion private allows us to speak our minds freely, both about issues and about persons involved in the issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can I join the Board mailing list? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not unless you&#039;re a [[b8mb|member of the Board]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How can I discuss things with the Board publicly or privately? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Publicly:&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.proposals about a particular proposal.&lt;br /&gt;
* Privately: Send email to [mailto:board@big-8.org board@big-8.org], which will go to the whole Board.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board reveal how its members voted? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We do not see any use for that information other than to make the members of the Board targets of ridicule and harassment.  We would be willing to tolerate the additional abuse if we felt that there was some benefit in posting individual votes, but we don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
* Who voted which way is not important; what is important is &#039;&#039;why&#039;&#039; Board members voted the way they did.  That is made clear during the discussion of a proposal in news.groups and/or news.groups.proposals.  Members of the Board actively participate in those discussions and share their reasons for supporting or opposing proposals.  All that would be accomplished by restating these reasons when announcing the Board&#039;s decision would be to spark useless repetition of discussion that has already taken place.&lt;br /&gt;
* Once a decision is reached by the Board, it is the decision of the entire Board, not its individual members, and the Board should unite in supporting its implementation.  Posting the votes of individual Board members who opposed the final decision would serve to divide rather than unite and hence would obstruct the implementation of the decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are there unwritten rules that the Board follows? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the unwritten rules? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I can&#039;t tell you.  They&#039;re, uh, unwritten.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you write them down? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because they are matters of common sense, netiquette, politesse, sound reasoning, and the like.  They are things that &amp;quot;go without saying,&amp;quot; so we don&#039;t say them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Do all the members of the Board speak for the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It depends on the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
* Each member of the Board wears two or more [[The Apache Software Foundation&#039;s Concept of &amp;quot;Hats&amp;quot;|&amp;quot;hats&amp;quot;]].  Each member is encouraged to participate in news.groups as an individual, expressing his or her own views of the topics being discussed.  Such personal opinions ought not to be attributed to the Board as a whole, unless the member is reporting or commenting on a policy or decision that has been formally enacted by the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Board members may also serve on committees of the Board ([[volunteer|Group Mentors, Dead Groups Task Force, UVP, etc.]]), thus picking up another hat to wear when posting in news.groups or elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you require all Board members to vote? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s impossible to know who is and who is not available to vote once a vote begins.  Stuff happens (e.g., tale&#039;s motorcycle accident) and sometimes people get busy with The Rest of Life (tm).  If enough members of the Board participate in the vote so that a motion is decided, that is sufficient for our purposes.  If we were meeting face-to-face instead of conducting votes through e-mail, we would, of course, expect all present to vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;enough members&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* That is spelled out in the ninth point of the [[Board Voting Policies|internal voting policies]] that we have adopted: &amp;quot;A vote requires at least half of the active members voting or explicitly abstaining in order to be decisive.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Miscellaneous Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is all that ugly stuff in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Somebody doesn&#039;t like us.  They forge a huge stream of very offensive posts to try do drown out the conversation.  Some people call the spew of forged posts &amp;quot;sporgery.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can&#039;t you stop them? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  [[usenet|Usenet]] is a loose confederation of news servers that spans the globe.  There is no central administration.  Access to each of the myriad of news servers is given by the administrator of each independent server.  No one can tell a news adminstrator how to run his or her news server.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If you wish to have a more highly structured and controlled environment, you might try to resurrect [http://www.usenet2.org/ Usenet II].  For now, the Big-8 newsgroups exist in the quasi-chaotic universe of Usenet I.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t they like you? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You&#039;ll have to ask the sporger that.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A regular in news.groups wrote: &amp;quot;While it appears most of the dissenters in here are decent people with differing points of view ... , there are some who would cheerfully leave the place a smoldering crater if it isn&#039;t run their way.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are board members required to read everything in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  The members of the board are free to read as much or as little of the traffic in news.group according to their own taste and temperament.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Suppose someone wants to discuss big-8 policy in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* They may.  It is an unmoderated group that has a [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|long history]] of policy discussions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What if I want to make sure the board sees my proposal? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Use a helpful subject line.&lt;br /&gt;
* [mailto:board@big-8.org E-mail the board] about the thread you have started.&lt;br /&gt;
* Crosspost to [[news.groups.proposals]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What&#039;s a wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A set of pages that can be quickly created and easily modified by a group of people.  [[wp&amp;gt;Wiki|&amp;quot;Wiki&amp;quot;]] is Hawaiian for &amp;quot;quick.&amp;quot;  See the bottom of each page for a link to [[wiki:dokuwiki|DokuWiki]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Aren&#039;t wikis supposed to allow anyone and everyone to contribute? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, that was the original theory on the original wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So this is not a &#039;&#039;real&#039;&#039; wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who is skirv?  ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Tim Skirvin, was chair of the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]] from 2006-2008.  For more on spaf, tale, Russ, and skirv, see the [[Big-8|history of the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why are you using a web site instead of newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Web sites are a tool that can be used to improve the understanding and functioning of newsgroups.  They are easily searched and can be maintained as a repository of useful information.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The web site is a backup for communicating through newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is a high signal-to-noise ratio in a static environment.&lt;br /&gt;
* The site acts as a possible entry port for web surfers to become interested in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a standard tool used in hierarchy administration: &amp;quot;Have a web site. Try to make sure that the URL for your hierarchy web site is stable and doesn&#039;t change, since the URL makes it into various FAQs and configuration files that live for years. Put all of the hierarchy information on the web site, and make sure that the web site stays up to date&amp;quot; ([http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ]).&lt;br /&gt;
* The Web site / Wiki model is more effective than a newsgroup for publishing or consuming certain kinds of content, including the content of this site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Yes, but shouldn&#039;t stuff about Usenet stay on Usenet? ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point of view that Usenet should not rely on any outside communication medium made more sense when the Usenet could reasonably be considered separate from the Internet.  Although it is still possible to transmit and receive Usenet traffic without using the Internet, in reality the vast majority of Usenet readers and servers work over the Internet, and the number of Usenet users and administrators who do not have access to the Internet and the Web is vanishingly small.  As such, it is appropriate to consider the Usenet part of the vast tapestry of Internet communication media, and it is therefore appropriate to take advantage of other pieces of that tapestry when doing so enhances and/or simplifies the Usenet administration process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How Do You Pronounce &amp;quot;B8MB&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I say &amp;quot;8-Bomb.&amp;quot;  Others tackle it differently.  &amp;quot;Bembi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bambi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bait &#039;em&amp;quot;?    There is a small cottage industry devoted to multiplying nicknames for the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why Do You Have So Many Committees? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Not all of the Board members are equally talented or equally interested in the tasks required to manage the business of the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Many hands make light work (sometimes).&lt;br /&gt;
* We&#039;re hoping to make more room for people to [[volunteer|volunteer their time and talent]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Links ==&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
Pages in This Site &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[b8mb|Current Board Members]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big-8|Short history of the Big-8]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Links|Other Usenet Links]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Glossary]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Classic FAQs &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ Internet FAQ Archives] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1918</id>
		<title>Big-8 Management FAQ</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Big-8_Management_FAQ&amp;diff=1918"/>
		<updated>2011-10-07T10:49:20Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* May we change the charter of our newsgroup? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Identity and Structure of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who are you folks and what have you done with my newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We are the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]]--click on the [[b8mb|highlighted text]] to see the list of members on the Board.  We&#039;ve been given the task of rethinking how to manage the [[Checkgroups|official list for Big-8 newsgroups]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where did the Board come from? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The former moderators of news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) formed the Board to make suggestions about how to revise the management of the [[big8|Big-8 newsgroup hierarchies.]]  After a year on probation, the [[n.a.n.]] moderators confirmed the work that the Board had done and made the changes in the system permanent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Date&lt;br /&gt;
!Event&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-08-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/dcce81994da320dc?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source CFV for comp.databases.mysql] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/09ccd38e27bfd23f?hl=en%03a6628420fdbc25c&amp;amp;dmode=source comp.databases.mysql created by fiat] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-09-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/d00bc82420769448?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en RFD Process on Hold / Call for Ideas] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-19&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/f945d09ae0f2b62a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Initial plan for Advisory Board]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-10-31&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-11&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/78f59a941c51fbed?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Preliminary Volunteer List: Next Step] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-15&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e7be688fbf193f79?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Second Call for Votes] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2005-11-21&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Welcome to New Board Members] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/549b3ae2aaa19686?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en New Big-8 Board Chair, and Current Status] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-13&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b0605164c1546aba?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en We are the Big-8 Management Board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-03-16&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.big-8.org www.big-8.org opened] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-04-18&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/57f67ae4fce01cdb?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Draft Creation System Outline] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-05-03&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/b2fa33037323ac9b?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Board Membership Policies / Test Run] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en Big Eight Hierarchy Management Transition (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/msg/fc504072f9b8b989?hl=en&amp;amp;dmode=source A Personal Goodbye (Allbery)] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2006-09-30&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/de9d6df080896139?hl=en McComb&#039;s evaluation of the board] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  (various)  &lt;br /&gt;
|[[Archived Announcements]] from the Board&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why do you call yourselves the &amp;quot;Management Board&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because we are taking care of eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|&amp;quot;managed hierarchies.&amp;quot;]  The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as alt.*  If all goes well, all changes in the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 groups]] will come as a result of control messages  sent by the Management Board.  The design philosophy of unmanaged hierarchies is that there is no central authority that can issue control messages.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Mission of the Board ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What kind of groups belong in the Big-8? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Newsgroups whose names begin with one of these components: comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, talk.&lt;br /&gt;
* The collective namespace defined by these eight lists of newsgroups is what we mean by [[Big-8|&amp;quot;the Big-8&amp;quot;]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== No, what I meant was &amp;quot;what kind of groups are you willing to create in the Big-8&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Groups that, in the judgment of the Board, are well-named and seem likely to be well-used.&lt;br /&gt;
* There are some kinds of proposals that the Board is [[discouraged|reluctant to consider]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-named&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The proposed name&#039;s spelling and syntax should fit in with the [[Names|traditional standards for Usenet and the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[Content_and_Format_of_a_Request_for_Discussion_(RFD)#5._Charter|charter]] of the group should be consistent with the name of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;well-used&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We mean that there are, as a general rule, a reasonable number of on-topic posts in the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* At the negative end of the scale, it is clear that a group that has no on-topic posts for a long time is not being well-used.  Such groups may be [[Rmgroup|removed]] from the [[Checkgroups|canonical list of Big-8 newsgroups]] if, in the judgment of the Board, they are dead and do not have any likelihood of being revived.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Where do I go if I want an alt.* group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.config?hl=en|google alt.config]&lt;br /&gt;
* [news:alt.config news:alt.config ]&lt;br /&gt;
* For more information, see [[other_hierarchies|this discussion]] of other Usenet hierarchies, including alt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why isn&#039;t the newsgroup I want to read available through my news service? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Every news administrator decides what groups to carry and what groups not to carry.  You will have to contact your [NSP|news service provider (NSP)]] directly to find out why some groups are not carried.  The Board would be happy to work with you and your NSP to see that the group is [[compliance|correctly configured]] on the news server so that posts made on the server circulate to all other servers that carry the big-8 and so that all posts made on all such servers appear on your news server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Newsgroup Charters ==&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is a newsgroup charter? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a brief description of the purpose and scope of a newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
* Every Request for Discussion (RFD) for a new newsgroup must have some kind of charter.  See point 5 on the [[RFD|description of the contents of an RFD]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Will the board make the people in our newsgroup obey the charter of the group? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why not? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* There are too many newsgroups--and too many disagreements about the meaning of charters!--for the board to become involved.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no way to identify who &amp;quot;the people in our newsgroup&amp;quot; are.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism in NNTP to enforce punishments on people who refuse to follow the charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is no mechanism to erase old charters and replace them with new charters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Except for moderated groups (a whole different kettle of fish), newsgroups have no &amp;quot;owners&amp;quot; who can impose and enforce charters or changes in charters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So what good are the @#$%*&amp;amp; charters anyway? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* The charters in RFDs help people decide whether a group should be created.  &lt;br /&gt;
* If the group is created, the charter provides some kind of touchstone for the original purpose and scope of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== May we change the charter of our newsgroup? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, in practice.  A newsgroup is whatever the participants make of it.&lt;br /&gt;
* No, not in the [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control | ISC archives].  The original charter is contained in the control message that creates the group.  The ISC collects those control messages in their archive.  There is no method at present to change the archives.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, by convention.  The last (signed) control message in the archive might overrule all predecessors.  This convention is used in &#039;&#039;de.*&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Board Policies ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How does the Board make decisions? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We discuss things among ourselves on a private mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
* When necessary, we take a vote using these [[Board Voting Policies|general guidelines]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How are new members added to the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We [[Adding members|ask for volunteers]], then vote on who will become a member.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the terms of office? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Membership|Roughly 18 months (renewable).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board conduct its discussions in public? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Publishing the transcript of the discussions would invite commentary, which would mean that everything any member said would have to be publicly explained and defended.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Keeping the discussion private allows us to speak our minds freely, both about issues and about persons involved in the issues.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can I join the Board mailing list? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not unless you&#039;re a [[b8mb|member of the Board]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How can I discuss things with the Board publicly or privately? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Publicly:&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
** Post in news.groups.proposals about a particular proposal.&lt;br /&gt;
* Privately: Send email to [mailto:board@big-8.org board@big-8.org], which will go to the whole Board.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why doesn&#039;t the Board reveal how its members voted? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* We do not see any use for that information other than to make the members of the Board targets of ridicule and harassment.  We would be willing to tolerate the additional abuse if we felt that there was some benefit in posting individual votes, but we don&#039;t.&lt;br /&gt;
* Who voted which way is not important; what is important is &#039;&#039;why&#039;&#039; Board members voted the way they did.  That is made clear during the discussion of a proposal in news.groups and/or news.groups.proposals.  Members of the Board actively participate in those discussions and share their reasons for supporting or opposing proposals.  All that would be accomplished by restating these reasons when announcing the Board&#039;s decision would be to spark useless repetition of discussion that has already taken place.&lt;br /&gt;
* Once a decision is reached by the Board, it is the decision of the entire Board, not its individual members, and the Board should unite in supporting its implementation.  Posting the votes of individual Board members who opposed the final decision would serve to divide rather than unite and hence would obstruct the implementation of the decision.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are there unwritten rules that the Board follows? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What are the unwritten rules? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I can&#039;t tell you.  They&#039;re, uh, unwritten.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you write them down? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Because they are matters of common sense, netiquette, politesse, sound reasoning, and the like.  They are things that &amp;quot;go without saying,&amp;quot; so we don&#039;t say them.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Do all the members of the Board speak for the Board? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* It depends on the situation.&lt;br /&gt;
* Each member of the Board wears two or more [[The Apache Software Foundation&#039;s Concept of &amp;quot;Hats&amp;quot;|&amp;quot;hats&amp;quot;]].  Each member is encouraged to participate in news.groups as an individual, expressing his or her own views of the topics being discussed.  Such personal opinions ought not to be attributed to the Board as a whole, unless the member is reporting or commenting on a policy or decision that has been formally enacted by the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Board members may also serve on committees of the Board ([[volunteer|Group Mentors, Dead Groups Task Force, UVP, etc.]]), thus picking up another hat to wear when posting in news.groups or elsewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t you require all Board members to vote? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s impossible to know who is and who is not available to vote once a vote begins.  Stuff happens (e.g., tale&#039;s motorcycle accident) and sometimes people get busy with The Rest of Life (tm).  If enough members of the Board participate in the vote so that a motion is decided, that is sufficient for our purposes.  If we were meeting face-to-face instead of conducting votes through e-mail, we would, of course, expect all present to vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What do you mean by &amp;quot;enough members&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* That is spelled out in the ninth point of the [[Board Voting Policies|internal voting policies]] that we have adopted: &amp;quot;A vote requires at least half of the active members voting or explicitly abstaining in order to be decisive.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Miscellaneous Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is all that ugly stuff in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Somebody doesn&#039;t like us.  They forge a huge stream of very offensive posts to try do drown out the conversation.  Some people call the spew of forged posts &amp;quot;sporgery.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Can&#039;t you stop them? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  [[usenet|Usenet]] is a loose confederation of news servers that spans the globe.  There is no central administration.  Access to each of the myriad of news servers is given by the administrator of each independent server.  No one can tell a news adminstrator how to run his or her news server.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If you wish to have a more highly structured and controlled environment, you might try to resurrect [http://www.usenet2.org/ Usenet II].  For now, the Big-8 newsgroups exist in the quasi-chaotic universe of Usenet I.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why don&#039;t they like you? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* You&#039;ll have to ask the sporger that.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A regular in news.groups wrote: &amp;quot;While it appears most of the dissenters in here are decent people with differing points of view ... , there are some who would cheerfully leave the place a smoldering crater if it isn&#039;t run their way.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Are board members required to read everything in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* No.  The members of the board are free to read as much or as little of the traffic in news.group according to their own taste and temperament.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Suppose someone wants to discuss big-8 policy in news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* They may.  It is an unmoderated group that has a [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|long history]] of policy discussions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What if I want to make sure the board sees my proposal? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Use a helpful subject line.&lt;br /&gt;
* [mailto:board@big-8.org E-mail the board] about the thread you have started.&lt;br /&gt;
* Crosspost to [[news.groups.proposals]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== What&#039;s a wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* A set of pages that can be quickly created and easily modified by a group of people.  [[wp&amp;gt;Wiki|&amp;quot;Wiki&amp;quot;]] is Hawaiian for &amp;quot;quick.&amp;quot;  See the bottom of each page for a link to [[wiki:dokuwiki|DokuWiki]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Aren&#039;t wikis supposed to allow anyone and everyone to contribute? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Yes, that was the original theory on the original wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== So this is not a &#039;&#039;real&#039;&#039; wiki? ===&lt;br /&gt;
* Correct.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Who is skirv?  ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Tim Skirvin, was chair of the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board (B8MB)]] from 2006-2008.  For more on spaf, tale, Russ, and skirv, see the [[Big-8|history of the Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why are you using a web site instead of newsgroups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Web sites are a tool that can be used to improve the understanding and functioning of newsgroups.  They are easily searched and can be maintained as a repository of useful information.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The web site is a backup for communicating through newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
* There is a high signal-to-noise ratio in a static environment.&lt;br /&gt;
* The site acts as a possible entry port for web surfers to become interested in news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
* It is a standard tool used in hierarchy administration: &amp;quot;Have a web site. Try to make sure that the URL for your hierarchy web site is stable and doesn&#039;t change, since the URL makes it into various FAQs and configuration files that live for years. Put all of the hierarchy information on the web site, and make sure that the web site stays up to date&amp;quot; ([http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ]).&lt;br /&gt;
* The Web site / Wiki model is more effective than a newsgroup for publishing or consuming certain kinds of content, including the content of this site.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Yes, but shouldn&#039;t stuff about Usenet stay on Usenet? ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The point of view that Usenet should not rely on any outside communication medium made more sense when the Usenet could reasonably be considered separate from the Internet.  Although it is still possible to transmit and receive Usenet traffic without using the Internet, in reality the vast majority of Usenet readers and servers work over the Internet, and the number of Usenet users and administrators who do not have access to the Internet and the Web is vanishingly small.  As such, it is appropriate to consider the Usenet part of the vast tapestry of Internet communication media, and it is therefore appropriate to take advantage of other pieces of that tapestry when doing so enhances and/or simplifies the Usenet administration process.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== How Do You Pronounce &amp;quot;B8MB&amp;quot;? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I say &amp;quot;8-Bomb.&amp;quot;  Others tackle it differently.  &amp;quot;Bembi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bambi&amp;quot;? &amp;quot;Bait &#039;em&amp;quot;?    There is a small cottage industry devoted to multiplying nicknames for the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Why Do You Have So Many Committees? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Not all of the Board members are equally talented or equally interested in the tasks required to manage the business of the Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Many hands make light work (sometimes).&lt;br /&gt;
* We&#039;re hoping to make more room for people to [[volunteer|volunteer their time and talent]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Links ==&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
Pages in This Site &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[b8mb|Current Board Members]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big-8|Short history of the Big-8]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Links|Other Usenet Links]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Glossary]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Classic FAQs &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ Internet FAQ Archives] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1878</id>
		<title>How the Management of the Big-8 Developed</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1878"/>
		<updated>2011-08-23T14:23:48Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction: What the Board does ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Big-8 Management Board]] oversees eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|managed hierarchies] in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Usenet:]&lt;br /&gt;
* comp.*&lt;br /&gt;
* humanities.*&lt;br /&gt;
* misc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* news.*&lt;br /&gt;
* rec.*&lt;br /&gt;
* sci.*&lt;br /&gt;
* soc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* talk.*&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are known as the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29 &amp;quot;Big-8 hierarchies.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_hierarchy alt.*]  In the Big-8, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup newsgroups] are added, removed, or modified by the action of the Big-8 Management Board.  In unmanaged hierarchies, the control messages to perform these functions may be sent by any user.[http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The idea of the big-8 was that it&#039;s a stable &amp;quot;core&amp;quot; of Usenet; a set of groups that are widely agreed upon to exist, that can be expected to reach (almost) everyone.  That&#039;s why it requires management, to ensure that it remains stable and suitable for most Usenet sites.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/39ab0e96ed0530e8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board aims to:&lt;br /&gt;
* create well-named, well-used newsgroups in the [[Big-8 Usenet hierarchies]];&lt;br /&gt;
* make necessary adjustments to existing groups;&lt;br /&gt;
* remove groups that are not well-used; and&lt;br /&gt;
* assist and encourage the support of a [[Checkgroups|canonical newsgroup list]] by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Development of hierarchy management in the Big-8 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of this article is to trace the development--evolution?--of the tools that allow the orderly creation, removal, or modification of newsgroups in the Big-8:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Checkgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a canonical list of newsgroups in the eight hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Creation Guidelines&#039;&#039;&#039;: a standardized approach to discussing and creating newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;news.announce.newgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a moderated newsgroup for publication of official lists and other items related to hierarchy management.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) key&#039;&#039;&#039;: a signature that is used to authenticate control messages and Checkgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== In the beginning was chaos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Development of Checkgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first steps towards hierarchy management--producing reliable&lt;br /&gt;
lists of available newsgroups--were taken in 1980; lists of newsgroups were embedded in the code for A News.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
In May of 1981, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Horton Mark_Horton] reported that he had &amp;quot;renamed all the arpanet newsgroups from NET.whatever to fa.whatever.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en|*] &lt;br /&gt;
In December, he mentioned that he was starting to collect a list of &amp;quot;officially blessed&amp;quot; newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/d2b6aa3230d40655?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  Horton created net.news.group in January of 1982 &amp;quot;for discussions about proposed new newsgroups.&amp;quot;[http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt|*] That same month, Curt Stephens began to publish a list of newsgroups in the new group.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
By the end of 1982, Adam Buchsbaum was producing a &amp;quot;List of Active&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en|*]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Spafford Gene Spafford (spaf)] took over updating and posting that list in 1984, and soon added Checkgroups postings.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en|*]  In 1993, spaf retired,[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df|*] and David C. Lawrence (tale) took over the task of publishing the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of Guidelines for Group Creation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the early days of Usenet, there was no control over the creation of new newsgroups. Anyone could issue the necessary control messages to create a new group, as is still the case in unmanaged hierarchies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From: cbosgd!mark (cbosgd!mark)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.news.group&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: 1982-05-31 21:52:27 PST&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.cbosgd.2329]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current official policy on creation new newsgroups is that someone is supposed to propose it in net.general,net.news.group (substitute whatever for net if it&#039;s a local group, or set up your own procedure) and all followups are supposed to go to net.news.group only.  (The followup command in all recent versions of news does this automatically.)  Once a consensus is reached, the person who originally proposed it should make a yes/no decision on the newsgroup and a name, announce it to net.general, and create it.  (If he is not the netnews contact at his site, he should ask that person to create it, or ask me.)[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.azure.1484]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.general&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: curts@sri-unix&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Sat Nov 20 10:30:44 1982&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: grouplist&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A new newsgroup may be created by simply posting material to the net under a new newsgroup name. However, THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED! There are limits to the number of newsgroups that can be supported by the net. If you wish to send material to the net, first try to find an established newsgroup that deals with a subject related to that material. If there is no appropriate newsgroup, suggest the creation of a new group via net.news.group. Usually, there will be enough feedback to establish whether there is an audience for the subject that you would like to discuss.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On October 31, 1987, spaf circulated the first Guidelines on &amp;quot;How to Create a New Newsgroup.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6f9c349dd48ceb9c?hl=en|*] Although the document prescribed a routine for developing a proposal and issuing a call for votes, it had no strict mechanism for the subsequent creation of the group: &amp;quot;You can issue the control message yourself, but many sites will ignore the group unless the control message originates from one of the known backbone admins.&amp;quot;  These five [[wp&amp;gt;Backbone_cabal|backbone administrators]] were Gene Spafford, Mark Horton, Rick Adams, Greg Woods, and Erik Fair.[http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The practice of voting on newsgroup proposals continued from 1987 until 2005.  The last edition of the Guidelines for Big-8 Newsgroup Creation under the old system were published in August of that year.[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of news.groups and news.announce.newgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1987, net.news.group became news.groups.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en|*] The new group inherited the task of the old group: to discuss newsgroup proposals and provide lists of active newsgroups. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On August 8, 1989, news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) was created with Greg Woods as the initial moderator of the group: &amp;quot;The moderated group will contain ONLY new group proposals, calls for votes, and results of votes, and periodic postings of the newsgroup creation guidelines. Proposals for changes to the newsgroup creation procedure will also be considered, again with the discussion and inevitable flame wars taking place only in news.groups, provided that these proposals do not become too numerous (bearing in mind that the major goal of this new group is to keep the volume low).&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en|*]  In January 1990, [[wp&amp;gt;Eliot_Lear|Eliot Lear]] took over, at first as backup moderator for Woods.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source|*]  He shepherded the system through its early turbulence and then chose David C. Lawrence (tale) as his successor in February 1991.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subsequent news.announce.newgroups moderators ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under tale, all of the ingredients for hierarchy management were consolidated.  As moderator of n.a.n, he oversaw the creation and removal of newsgroups.  After 1993, he also took over the job of issuing Checkgroups so that news administrators could have a reliable list of active newsgroups.  In 1996, tale began authenticating his posts by using a [[wp&amp;gt;Pretty_Good_Privacy|PGP key]] to counteract a [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6ffb3913cd42541a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|flood of bogus control messages] that had been sent out under his name.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en|*]  As a general rule, most news administrators ceased to honor control messages in the Big-8 hierarchy that were not authenticated by tale&#039;s PGP key.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Russ Allbery began to help tale with hierarchy management in 1997.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c2b269e4957365d0?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
In 2002, Allbery succeeded tale as the lead moderator for news.announce.newgroups with piranha and Todd McComb as fellow n.a.n. moderators.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en|*] In 2004, Brian Edmonds joined the moderation team.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1987, most newsgroup decisions had been made by the system of voting developed under spaf&#039;s guidance.  In 2005, the voting system came under attack, and the news.announce.newgroups moderators announced a moratorium on accepting RFDs and asked for new ideas about how to manage the Big-8.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
Those discussions led in turn to the formation of an interim group[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en|*] that eventually became the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board,]] the successor to the n.a.n. moderation team of Allbery, piranha, McComb, and Edmonds.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
Allbery, Russ.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b8c16deca63b6bfc?hl=en &amp;quot;ADMINISTRIVIA: New members of group-advice&amp;quot;] (2001-03-04).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: Change of Moderators&amp;quot;] (2002-10-13).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en   &amp;quot;Big Eight hierarchy management transition&amp;quot;] (2006-09-30).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html   &amp;quot;The Big Eight Newsgroup Creation Process 1.11&amp;quot;] (2005-08-25).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html   &amp;quot;Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ 1.8&amp;quot;] (2006-08-12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bernstein, Joe.  [http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt   &amp;quot;History of the guidelines for newsgroup creation in the Big Seven and Big Eight hierarchies 0.35&amp;quot;] (2001-11-02).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt   &amp;quot;1981-1982 creation.txt&amp;quot;] (2003-11-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Early lists of newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2002-01-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buchsbaum, Adam.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Active Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-12-05).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edmonds, Brian.  [http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html   &amp;quot;How To Write a Good Newgroup Message 1.19&amp;quot;] (2003-07-23).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guntner, David.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Authenticated newgroup/rmgroup messages&amp;quot;] (1996-05-22).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hauben, Michael and Rhonda.  [http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Horton, Mark.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en   &amp;quot;net.news.group is being renamed news.groups&amp;quot;] (1986-11-07).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en   &amp;quot;network name change is in effect&amp;quot;] (1981-05-12). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en   &amp;quot;official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-06-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Internet Systems Consortium]] (ISC).  [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Group_Lists/2006915  Sample &amp;quot;List of Big Eight Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2006-09-15).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jones, Bruce. [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/index.html usenet.hist mailing list archive].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
McComb, Todd.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: New Team Member&amp;quot;] (2004-07-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board&amp;quot;] (2005-10-31).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en   &amp;quot;Welcome to new Board members&amp;quot;] (2005-11-21).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Spafford, Gene.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Bad addresses &amp;amp; control messages&amp;quot;]--first Checkgroups (1984-10-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Moderators&amp;quot;] (1991-05-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stephens, Curt.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-01-26).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-11-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Supernews.  [http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html   &amp;quot;Composing and Posting a Control (newgroup) Message&amp;quot;] (2006).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Woods, Greg.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en   &amp;quot;news.announce.newgroups is up&amp;quot;] (1989-08-08).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Related Wikipedia articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.%2A_hierarchy alt.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_News A news]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbone_cabal Backbone cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) Big-8 hierarchies]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_News B News]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28advocate%29 John Gilmore (founded alt.* with Brian Reid)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newsgroups List of Newsgroups]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_News_Transfer_Protocol  Network News Transfer Protocol]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups newsgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_client news client]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_clients news clients (news readers)--list]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOV_%28computers%29 News Overview (NOV)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server news server (with list of news server software)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming The Great Renaming]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid Brian Reid (founded alt.* with John Gilmore)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Gene Spafford (spaf)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September The September That Never Ended]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal tinc: There is no cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Usenet]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uucp UUCP]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet_people Usenet people]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Specific hierarchies ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp.%2A_hierarchy comp.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci.%2A_hierarchy sci.*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1877</id>
		<title>How the Management of the Big-8 Developed</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1877"/>
		<updated>2011-08-23T14:19:29Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* Subsequent news.announce.newgroups moderators */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction: What the Board does ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board oversees eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|managed hierarchies] in [[wp&amp;gt;Usenet|Usenet]]:&lt;br /&gt;
* comp.*&lt;br /&gt;
* humanities.*&lt;br /&gt;
* misc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* news.*&lt;br /&gt;
* rec.*&lt;br /&gt;
* sci.*&lt;br /&gt;
* soc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* talk.*&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are known as the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29 &amp;quot;Big-8 hierarchies.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_hierarchy alt.*]  In the Big-8, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup newsgroups] are added, removed, or modified by the action of the Big-8 Management Board.  In unmanaged hierarchies, the control messages to perform these functions may be sent by any user.[http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The idea of the big-8 was that it&#039;s a stable &amp;quot;core&amp;quot; of Usenet; a set of groups that are widely agreed upon to exist, that can be expected to reach (almost) everyone.  That&#039;s why it requires management, to ensure that it remains stable and suitable for most Usenet sites.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/39ab0e96ed0530e8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board aims to:&lt;br /&gt;
* create well-named, well-used newsgroups in the [[Big-8 Usenet hierarchies]];&lt;br /&gt;
* make necessary adjustments to existing groups;&lt;br /&gt;
* remove groups that are not well-used; and&lt;br /&gt;
* assist and encourage the support of a [[Checkgroups|canonical newsgroup list]] by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Development of hierarchy management in the Big-8 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of this article is to trace the development--evolution?--of the tools that allow the orderly creation, removal, or modification of newsgroups in the Big-8:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Checkgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a canonical list of newsgroups in the eight hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Creation Guidelines&#039;&#039;&#039;: a standardized approach to discussing and creating newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;news.announce.newgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a moderated newsgroup for publication of official lists and other items related to hierarchy management.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) key&#039;&#039;&#039;: a signature that is used to authenticate control messages and Checkgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== In the beginning was chaos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Development of Checkgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first steps towards hierarchy management--producing reliable&lt;br /&gt;
lists of available newsgroups--were taken in 1980; lists of newsgroups were embedded in the code for A News.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
In May of 1981, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Horton Mark_Horton] reported that he had &amp;quot;renamed all the arpanet newsgroups from NET.whatever to fa.whatever.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en|*] &lt;br /&gt;
In December, he mentioned that he was starting to collect a list of &amp;quot;officially blessed&amp;quot; newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/d2b6aa3230d40655?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  Horton created net.news.group in January of 1982 &amp;quot;for discussions about proposed new newsgroups.&amp;quot;[http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt|*] That same month, Curt Stephens began to publish a list of newsgroups in the new group.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
By the end of 1982, Adam Buchsbaum was producing a &amp;quot;List of Active&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en|*]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Spafford Gene Spafford (spaf)] took over updating and posting that list in 1984, and soon added Checkgroups postings.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en|*]  In 1993, spaf retired,[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df|*] and David C. Lawrence (tale) took over the task of publishing the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of Guidelines for Group Creation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the early days of Usenet, there was no control over the creation of new newsgroups. Anyone could issue the necessary control messages to create a new group, as is still the case in unmanaged hierarchies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From: cbosgd!mark (cbosgd!mark)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.news.group&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: 1982-05-31 21:52:27 PST&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.cbosgd.2329]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current official policy on creation new newsgroups is that someone is supposed to propose it in net.general,net.news.group (substitute whatever for net if it&#039;s a local group, or set up your own procedure) and all followups are supposed to go to net.news.group only.  (The followup command in all recent versions of news does this automatically.)  Once a consensus is reached, the person who originally proposed it should make a yes/no decision on the newsgroup and a name, announce it to net.general, and create it.  (If he is not the netnews contact at his site, he should ask that person to create it, or ask me.)[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.azure.1484]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.general&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: curts@sri-unix&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Sat Nov 20 10:30:44 1982&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: grouplist&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A new newsgroup may be created by simply posting material to the net under a new newsgroup name. However, THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED! There are limits to the number of newsgroups that can be supported by the net. If you wish to send material to the net, first try to find an established newsgroup that deals with a subject related to that material. If there is no appropriate newsgroup, suggest the creation of a new group via net.news.group. Usually, there will be enough feedback to establish whether there is an audience for the subject that you would like to discuss.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On October 31, 1987, spaf circulated the first Guidelines on &amp;quot;How to Create a New Newsgroup.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6f9c349dd48ceb9c?hl=en|*] Although the document prescribed a routine for developing a proposal and issuing a call for votes, it had no strict mechanism for the subsequent creation of the group: &amp;quot;You can issue the control message yourself, but many sites will ignore the group unless the control message originates from one of the known backbone admins.&amp;quot;  These five [[wp&amp;gt;Backbone_cabal|backbone administrators]] were Gene Spafford, Mark Horton, Rick Adams, Greg Woods, and Erik Fair.[http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The practice of voting on newsgroup proposals continued from 1987 until 2005.  The last edition of the Guidelines for Big-8 Newsgroup Creation under the old system were published in August of that year.[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of news.groups and news.announce.newgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1987, net.news.group became news.groups.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en|*] The new group inherited the task of the old group: to discuss newsgroup proposals and provide lists of active newsgroups. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On August 8, 1989, news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) was created with Greg Woods as the initial moderator of the group: &amp;quot;The moderated group will contain ONLY new group proposals, calls for votes, and results of votes, and periodic postings of the newsgroup creation guidelines. Proposals for changes to the newsgroup creation procedure will also be considered, again with the discussion and inevitable flame wars taking place only in news.groups, provided that these proposals do not become too numerous (bearing in mind that the major goal of this new group is to keep the volume low).&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en|*]  In January 1990, [[wp&amp;gt;Eliot_Lear|Eliot Lear]] took over, at first as backup moderator for Woods.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source|*]  He shepherded the system through its early turbulence and then chose David C. Lawrence (tale) as his successor in February 1991.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subsequent news.announce.newgroups moderators ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under tale, all of the ingredients for hierarchy management were consolidated.  As moderator of n.a.n, he oversaw the creation and removal of newsgroups.  After 1993, he also took over the job of issuing Checkgroups so that news administrators could have a reliable list of active newsgroups.  In 1996, tale began authenticating his posts by using a [[wp&amp;gt;Pretty_Good_Privacy|PGP key]] to counteract a [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6ffb3913cd42541a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|flood of bogus control messages] that had been sent out under his name.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en|*]  As a general rule, most news administrators ceased to honor control messages in the Big-8 hierarchy that were not authenticated by tale&#039;s PGP key.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Russ Allbery began to help tale with hierarchy management in 1997.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c2b269e4957365d0?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
In 2002, Allbery succeeded tale as the lead moderator for news.announce.newgroups with piranha and Todd McComb as fellow n.a.n. moderators.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en|*] In 2004, Brian Edmonds joined the moderation team.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1987, most newsgroup decisions had been made by the system of voting developed under spaf&#039;s guidance.  In 2005, the voting system came under attack, and the news.announce.newgroups moderators announced a moratorium on accepting RFDs and asked for new ideas about how to manage the Big-8.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
Those discussions led in turn to the formation of an interim group[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en|*] that eventually became the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board,]] the successor to the n.a.n. moderation team of Allbery, piranha, McComb, and Edmonds.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
Allbery, Russ.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b8c16deca63b6bfc?hl=en &amp;quot;ADMINISTRIVIA: New members of group-advice&amp;quot;] (2001-03-04).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: Change of Moderators&amp;quot;] (2002-10-13).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en   &amp;quot;Big Eight hierarchy management transition&amp;quot;] (2006-09-30).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html   &amp;quot;The Big Eight Newsgroup Creation Process 1.11&amp;quot;] (2005-08-25).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html   &amp;quot;Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ 1.8&amp;quot;] (2006-08-12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bernstein, Joe.  [http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt   &amp;quot;History of the guidelines for newsgroup creation in the Big Seven and Big Eight hierarchies 0.35&amp;quot;] (2001-11-02).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt   &amp;quot;1981-1982 creation.txt&amp;quot;] (2003-11-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Early lists of newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2002-01-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buchsbaum, Adam.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Active Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-12-05).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edmonds, Brian.  [http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html   &amp;quot;How To Write a Good Newgroup Message 1.19&amp;quot;] (2003-07-23).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guntner, David.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Authenticated newgroup/rmgroup messages&amp;quot;] (1996-05-22).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hauben, Michael and Rhonda.  [http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Horton, Mark.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en   &amp;quot;net.news.group is being renamed news.groups&amp;quot;] (1986-11-07).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en   &amp;quot;network name change is in effect&amp;quot;] (1981-05-12). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en   &amp;quot;official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-06-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Internet Systems Consortium]] (ISC).  [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Group_Lists/2006915  Sample &amp;quot;List of Big Eight Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2006-09-15).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jones, Bruce. [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/index.html usenet.hist mailing list archive].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
McComb, Todd.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: New Team Member&amp;quot;] (2004-07-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board&amp;quot;] (2005-10-31).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en   &amp;quot;Welcome to new Board members&amp;quot;] (2005-11-21).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Spafford, Gene.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Bad addresses &amp;amp; control messages&amp;quot;]--first Checkgroups (1984-10-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Moderators&amp;quot;] (1991-05-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stephens, Curt.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-01-26).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-11-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Supernews.  [http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html   &amp;quot;Composing and Posting a Control (newgroup) Message&amp;quot;] (2006).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Woods, Greg.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en   &amp;quot;news.announce.newgroups is up&amp;quot;] (1989-08-08).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Related Wikipedia articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.%2A_hierarchy alt.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_News A news]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbone_cabal Backbone cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) Big-8 hierarchies]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_News B News]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28advocate%29 John Gilmore (founded alt.* with Brian Reid)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newsgroups List of Newsgroups]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_News_Transfer_Protocol  Network News Transfer Protocol]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups newsgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_client news client]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_clients news clients (news readers)--list]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOV_%28computers%29 News Overview (NOV)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server news server (with list of news server software)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming The Great Renaming]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid Brian Reid (founded alt.* with John Gilmore)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Gene Spafford (spaf)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September The September That Never Ended]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal tinc: There is no cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Usenet]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uucp UUCP]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet_people Usenet people]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Specific hierarchies ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp.%2A_hierarchy comp.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci.%2A_hierarchy sci.*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1876</id>
		<title>How the Management of the Big-8 Developed</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1876"/>
		<updated>2011-08-23T14:18:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* The Development of Checkgroups */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction: What the Board does ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board oversees eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|managed hierarchies] in [[wp&amp;gt;Usenet|Usenet]]:&lt;br /&gt;
* comp.*&lt;br /&gt;
* humanities.*&lt;br /&gt;
* misc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* news.*&lt;br /&gt;
* rec.*&lt;br /&gt;
* sci.*&lt;br /&gt;
* soc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* talk.*&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are known as the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29 &amp;quot;Big-8 hierarchies.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_hierarchy alt.*]  In the Big-8, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup newsgroups] are added, removed, or modified by the action of the Big-8 Management Board.  In unmanaged hierarchies, the control messages to perform these functions may be sent by any user.[http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The idea of the big-8 was that it&#039;s a stable &amp;quot;core&amp;quot; of Usenet; a set of groups that are widely agreed upon to exist, that can be expected to reach (almost) everyone.  That&#039;s why it requires management, to ensure that it remains stable and suitable for most Usenet sites.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/39ab0e96ed0530e8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board aims to:&lt;br /&gt;
* create well-named, well-used newsgroups in the [[Big-8 Usenet hierarchies]];&lt;br /&gt;
* make necessary adjustments to existing groups;&lt;br /&gt;
* remove groups that are not well-used; and&lt;br /&gt;
* assist and encourage the support of a [[Checkgroups|canonical newsgroup list]] by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Development of hierarchy management in the Big-8 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of this article is to trace the development--evolution?--of the tools that allow the orderly creation, removal, or modification of newsgroups in the Big-8:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Checkgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a canonical list of newsgroups in the eight hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Creation Guidelines&#039;&#039;&#039;: a standardized approach to discussing and creating newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;news.announce.newgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a moderated newsgroup for publication of official lists and other items related to hierarchy management.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) key&#039;&#039;&#039;: a signature that is used to authenticate control messages and Checkgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== In the beginning was chaos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Development of Checkgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first steps towards hierarchy management--producing reliable&lt;br /&gt;
lists of available newsgroups--were taken in 1980; lists of newsgroups were embedded in the code for A News.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
In May of 1981, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Horton Mark_Horton] reported that he had &amp;quot;renamed all the arpanet newsgroups from NET.whatever to fa.whatever.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en|*] &lt;br /&gt;
In December, he mentioned that he was starting to collect a list of &amp;quot;officially blessed&amp;quot; newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/d2b6aa3230d40655?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  Horton created net.news.group in January of 1982 &amp;quot;for discussions about proposed new newsgroups.&amp;quot;[http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt|*] That same month, Curt Stephens began to publish a list of newsgroups in the new group.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
By the end of 1982, Adam Buchsbaum was producing a &amp;quot;List of Active&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en|*]  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Spafford Gene Spafford (spaf)] took over updating and posting that list in 1984, and soon added Checkgroups postings.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en|*]  In 1993, spaf retired,[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df|*] and David C. Lawrence (tale) took over the task of publishing the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of Guidelines for Group Creation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the early days of Usenet, there was no control over the creation of new newsgroups. Anyone could issue the necessary control messages to create a new group, as is still the case in unmanaged hierarchies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From: cbosgd!mark (cbosgd!mark)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.news.group&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: 1982-05-31 21:52:27 PST&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.cbosgd.2329]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current official policy on creation new newsgroups is that someone is supposed to propose it in net.general,net.news.group (substitute whatever for net if it&#039;s a local group, or set up your own procedure) and all followups are supposed to go to net.news.group only.  (The followup command in all recent versions of news does this automatically.)  Once a consensus is reached, the person who originally proposed it should make a yes/no decision on the newsgroup and a name, announce it to net.general, and create it.  (If he is not the netnews contact at his site, he should ask that person to create it, or ask me.)[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.azure.1484]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.general&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: curts@sri-unix&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Sat Nov 20 10:30:44 1982&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: grouplist&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A new newsgroup may be created by simply posting material to the net under a new newsgroup name. However, THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED! There are limits to the number of newsgroups that can be supported by the net. If you wish to send material to the net, first try to find an established newsgroup that deals with a subject related to that material. If there is no appropriate newsgroup, suggest the creation of a new group via net.news.group. Usually, there will be enough feedback to establish whether there is an audience for the subject that you would like to discuss.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On October 31, 1987, spaf circulated the first Guidelines on &amp;quot;How to Create a New Newsgroup.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6f9c349dd48ceb9c?hl=en|*] Although the document prescribed a routine for developing a proposal and issuing a call for votes, it had no strict mechanism for the subsequent creation of the group: &amp;quot;You can issue the control message yourself, but many sites will ignore the group unless the control message originates from one of the known backbone admins.&amp;quot;  These five [[wp&amp;gt;Backbone_cabal|backbone administrators]] were Gene Spafford, Mark Horton, Rick Adams, Greg Woods, and Erik Fair.[http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The practice of voting on newsgroup proposals continued from 1987 until 2005.  The last edition of the Guidelines for Big-8 Newsgroup Creation under the old system were published in August of that year.[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of news.groups and news.announce.newgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1987, net.news.group became news.groups.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en|*] The new group inherited the task of the old group: to discuss newsgroup proposals and provide lists of active newsgroups. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On August 8, 1989, news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) was created with Greg Woods as the initial moderator of the group: &amp;quot;The moderated group will contain ONLY new group proposals, calls for votes, and results of votes, and periodic postings of the newsgroup creation guidelines. Proposals for changes to the newsgroup creation procedure will also be considered, again with the discussion and inevitable flame wars taking place only in news.groups, provided that these proposals do not become too numerous (bearing in mind that the major goal of this new group is to keep the volume low).&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en|*]  In January 1990, [[wp&amp;gt;Eliot_Lear|Eliot Lear]] took over, at first as backup moderator for Woods.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source|*]  He shepherded the system through its early turbulence and then chose David C. Lawrence (tale) as his successor in February 1991.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subsequent news.announce.newgroups moderators ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under tale, all of the ingredients for hierarchy management were consolidated.  As moderator of n.a.n, he oversaw the creation and removal of newsgroups.  After 1993, he also took over the job of issuing Checkgroups so that news administrators could have a reliable list of active newsgroups.  In 1996, tale began authenticating his posts by using a [[wp&amp;gt;Pretty_Good_Privacy|PGP key]] to counteract a [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6ffb3913cd42541a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|flood of bogus control messages] that had been sent out under his name.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en|*]  As a general rule, most news administrators ceased to honor control messages in the Big-8 hierarchy that were not authenticated by tale&#039;s PGP key.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Russ Allbery began to help tale with hierarchy management in 1997.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c2b269e4957365d0?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
In 2002, Allbery succeeded tale as the lead moderator for news.announce.newgroups with piranha and Todd McComb as fellow n.a.n. moderators.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en|*] In 2004, Brian Edmonds joined the moderation team.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1987, most newsgroup decisions had been made by the system of voting developed under spaf&#039;s guidance.  In 2005, the voting system came under attack, and the news.announce.newgroups moderators announced a moratorium on accepting RFDs and asked for new ideas about how to manage the Big-8.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
Those discussions led in turn to the formation of an interim group[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en|*] that eventually became the Big-8 Management Board, the successor to the n.a.n. moderation team of Allbery, piranha, McComb, and Edmonds.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
Allbery, Russ.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b8c16deca63b6bfc?hl=en &amp;quot;ADMINISTRIVIA: New members of group-advice&amp;quot;] (2001-03-04).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: Change of Moderators&amp;quot;] (2002-10-13).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en   &amp;quot;Big Eight hierarchy management transition&amp;quot;] (2006-09-30).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html   &amp;quot;The Big Eight Newsgroup Creation Process 1.11&amp;quot;] (2005-08-25).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html   &amp;quot;Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ 1.8&amp;quot;] (2006-08-12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bernstein, Joe.  [http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt   &amp;quot;History of the guidelines for newsgroup creation in the Big Seven and Big Eight hierarchies 0.35&amp;quot;] (2001-11-02).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt   &amp;quot;1981-1982 creation.txt&amp;quot;] (2003-11-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Early lists of newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2002-01-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buchsbaum, Adam.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Active Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-12-05).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edmonds, Brian.  [http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html   &amp;quot;How To Write a Good Newgroup Message 1.19&amp;quot;] (2003-07-23).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guntner, David.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Authenticated newgroup/rmgroup messages&amp;quot;] (1996-05-22).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hauben, Michael and Rhonda.  [http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Horton, Mark.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en   &amp;quot;net.news.group is being renamed news.groups&amp;quot;] (1986-11-07).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en   &amp;quot;network name change is in effect&amp;quot;] (1981-05-12). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en   &amp;quot;official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-06-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Internet Systems Consortium]] (ISC).  [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Group_Lists/2006915  Sample &amp;quot;List of Big Eight Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2006-09-15).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jones, Bruce. [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/index.html usenet.hist mailing list archive].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
McComb, Todd.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: New Team Member&amp;quot;] (2004-07-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board&amp;quot;] (2005-10-31).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en   &amp;quot;Welcome to new Board members&amp;quot;] (2005-11-21).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Spafford, Gene.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Bad addresses &amp;amp; control messages&amp;quot;]--first Checkgroups (1984-10-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Moderators&amp;quot;] (1991-05-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stephens, Curt.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-01-26).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-11-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Supernews.  [http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html   &amp;quot;Composing and Posting a Control (newgroup) Message&amp;quot;] (2006).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Woods, Greg.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en   &amp;quot;news.announce.newgroups is up&amp;quot;] (1989-08-08).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Related Wikipedia articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.%2A_hierarchy alt.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_News A news]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbone_cabal Backbone cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) Big-8 hierarchies]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_News B News]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28advocate%29 John Gilmore (founded alt.* with Brian Reid)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newsgroups List of Newsgroups]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_News_Transfer_Protocol  Network News Transfer Protocol]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups newsgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_client news client]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_clients news clients (news readers)--list]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOV_%28computers%29 News Overview (NOV)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server news server (with list of news server software)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming The Great Renaming]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid Brian Reid (founded alt.* with John Gilmore)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Gene Spafford (spaf)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September The September That Never Ended]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal tinc: There is no cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Usenet]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uucp UUCP]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet_people Usenet people]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Specific hierarchies ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp.%2A_hierarchy comp.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci.%2A_hierarchy sci.*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1870</id>
		<title>Removing board members</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1870"/>
		<updated>2011-07-30T01:38:32Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* Announce the removal of the member in n.a.n.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from board mailing list (Google Groups).&lt;br /&gt;
** Promote another member to owner/moderator, if need be.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from the wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
** User account&lt;br /&gt;
** User page(s)&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove linux user account (if any) on big-8.org.&lt;br /&gt;
* Change panix password for joint username.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove panix user account (if any).&lt;br /&gt;
* Request any fragments of big-8 key in the member&#039;s possession (passphrase or a half-key).&lt;br /&gt;
* Search for the member&#039;s name on the wiki and modify all lists and board functions accordingly.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1869</id>
		<title>Removing board members</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1869"/>
		<updated>2011-07-30T00:40:22Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* Announce the removal of the member in n.a.n.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from board mailing list (Google Groups).&lt;br /&gt;
** Promote another member to owner/moderator, if need be.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from the wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove linux user account (if any) on big-8.org.&lt;br /&gt;
* Change panix password for joint username.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove panix user account (if any).&lt;br /&gt;
* Request any fragments of big-8 key in the member&#039;s possession (passphrase or a half-key).&lt;br /&gt;
* Search for the member&#039;s name on the wiki and modify all lists and board functions accordingly.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1868</id>
		<title>Removing board members</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1868"/>
		<updated>2011-07-30T00:27:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* Announce the removal of the member in n.a.n.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from board mailing list (Google Groups).&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from the wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove linux user account (if any) on big-8.org.&lt;br /&gt;
* Change panix password for joint username.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove panix user account (if any).&lt;br /&gt;
* Request any fragments of big-8 key in the member&#039;s possession (passphrase or a half-key).&lt;br /&gt;
* Search for the member&#039;s name on the wiki and modify all lists and board functions accordingly.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1867</id>
		<title>Removing board members</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1867"/>
		<updated>2011-07-30T00:18:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* Announce the removal of the member in n.a.n.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from board mailing list (Google Groups).&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from the wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove linux user account (if any) on big-8.org.&lt;br /&gt;
* Change panix password for joint username.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove panix user account (if any).&lt;br /&gt;
* Request any fragments of big-8 key in the member&#039;s possession (passphrase or a half-key).&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1866</id>
		<title>Removing board members</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Removing_board_members&amp;diff=1866"/>
		<updated>2011-07-30T00:15:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: Created page with &amp;quot;* Announce the removal of the member in n.a.n. * Remove from board mailing list (Google Groups). * Remove from the wiki. * Remove linux user account (if any) on big-8.org. * Chan...&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* Announce the removal of the member in n.a.n.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from board mailing list (Google Groups).&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove from the wiki.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove linux user account (if any) on big-8.org.&lt;br /&gt;
* Change panix password for joint username.&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove panix user account (if any).&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=News.announce.newgroups&amp;diff=1857</id>
		<title>News.announce.newgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=News.announce.newgroups&amp;diff=1857"/>
		<updated>2011-07-20T14:41:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n) is a moderated announcement group used by the [[b8mb|Big-8 Management board]] to publish [[RFD|Requests for Discussion]], to report results of votes, and to make information about the Board&#039;s operation available as needed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[news:news.announce.newgroups Link to news:news.announce.newgroups,] if you have a properly configured [[newsreaders|newsreader.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/topics?hl=en Access n.a.n via Google Groups.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moleski&amp;diff=1643</id>
		<title>User talk:Moleski</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moleski&amp;diff=1643"/>
		<updated>2011-01-04T13:46:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;First edit: --[[User:Moleski|Moleski]] 17:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;MediaWiki has been successfully installed.&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to clean up interwiki links.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Testing 1.16.1 patch.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sidebar ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Charters&amp;diff=1630</id>
		<title>Charters</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Charters&amp;diff=1630"/>
		<updated>2010-12-15T16:48:10Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;See [[Internet Systems Consortium]] for links to the charter repository, such as it is, for each of the [[Big-8]] hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the current system (and for many years) it has been the convention to include a charter as part of a [[Request for Discussion]] for new newsgroups.  In the period before [[Great renaming|The Great Renaming]], many groups were created without a charter beyond the [[RFD#2._Newsgroups_Line|newsgroup description line]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ru igarashi ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:19:36 CST&lt;br /&gt;
From: Ru Igarashi &amp;lt;ru.igarashi@usask.ca&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;h421se$mtc$1@webmail.usask.ca&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In news.groups.proposals Helge Nareid &amp;lt;hn.ng@hnareid.me.uk&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
[...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; Personally, I think that charter changes should be allowed,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; particularly if there is a compelling case for it - rec.games.bolo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; would be a good candidate IMHO. However, at this point in time I&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; appear to be in a minority in the B8MB.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t think it was a question of being allowed or even of&lt;br /&gt;
tradition, rather it was - and still is - a pointless action.&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 never had a repository and machinery to administer&lt;br /&gt;
charters effectively.  I think David and Russ were both agreeable&lt;br /&gt;
to the idea of a charter administration scheme.  As always, the&lt;br /&gt;
big hurdle was manpower, finding someone to start the ball rolling&lt;br /&gt;
and then keep it working (I&#039;m pretty sure Russ pointed this out).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One might ask why we can&#039;t simply use the machinery for&lt;br /&gt;
administering newsgroups.  I think it came back to the&lt;br /&gt;
repository.  The current archive is for control messages.&lt;br /&gt;
Never mind whether control messages get issued for charter&lt;br /&gt;
updates (why bother?).  Having the charter updates mixed in&lt;br /&gt;
with control messages (in the archive) would inevitably lead&lt;br /&gt;
to confusion over which charter holds, in the worst case,&lt;br /&gt;
and to complaints about how difficult it is to find the most&lt;br /&gt;
recent update in the best case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A proper charter management system has to be just that, a&lt;br /&gt;
system, and it should be separate from the group administration&lt;br /&gt;
system.  It should unambiguously present charters, while&lt;br /&gt;
providing a means for submitting and approving updates.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s just a question of finding the people to set it up and&lt;br /&gt;
run it.  If I thought I could guarantee the required amount&lt;br /&gt;
of my resources in the long term, I&#039;d do it.  But I can&#039;t&lt;br /&gt;
make that kind of assurance even in the short term, which&lt;br /&gt;
sucks, because setting up the archive looks kind of fun to&lt;br /&gt;
try.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The alternative, which I pushed while I was active here,&lt;br /&gt;
is to use FAQs to maintain charters.  Charters in group&lt;br /&gt;
creation control messages are not meant to be the&lt;br /&gt;
STANDING charter, merely the STARTING point for the group.  &lt;br /&gt;
How the group gets used afterward has always been considered&lt;br /&gt;
the business of the group&#039;s users.  As such, FAQs can&lt;br /&gt;
be an acceptable means for establishing the standing&lt;br /&gt;
charter.  Control of FAQs is an issue, but when the&lt;br /&gt;
FAQ is aligned with the users, it can be quite effective.&lt;br /&gt;
Much of that machinery exists.  It&#039;s just a matter of&lt;br /&gt;
the users of a particular group agreeing to a mechanism&lt;br /&gt;
for making updates within their group (e.g. voting&lt;br /&gt;
scheme) and to make the FAQ version of the Charter the&lt;br /&gt;
standing charter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Steve Bonine ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:54:16 CST&lt;br /&gt;
From: Steve Bonine &amp;lt;spb@pobox.com&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;7cjkvef28245gu1@mid.individual.net&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ru Igarashi wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; I don&#039;t think it was a question of being allowed or even of&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; tradition, rather it was - and still is - a pointless action.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; The Big-8 never had a repository and machinery to administer&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; charters effectively.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree that it&#039;s a pointless action, but for rather different reasons &lt;br /&gt;
than you enumerated in your article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For an unmoderated newsgroup, what&#039;s the point?  It&#039;s peer pressure that &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;enforces&amp;quot; the charter for an unmoderated group, whether there&#039;s a &lt;br /&gt;
formal charter-management system or not.  Why put a system in place to &lt;br /&gt;
keep up with charters when they really don&#039;t mean anything?  The people &lt;br /&gt;
who tend to flaunt charters are not the folks who will carefully check &lt;br /&gt;
the text of a charter that&#039;s maintained in a repository.  Changing the &lt;br /&gt;
charter, even if such a change were carefully recorded in a publicly &lt;br /&gt;
available system, would have no effect on the actual operation of the &lt;br /&gt;
newsgroup.  In fact, it might fuel the netcop activity in the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For moderated newsgroups, the moderator(s) set the effective charter of &lt;br /&gt;
the group.  If submissions are out of line, the moderator(s) can inform &lt;br /&gt;
the submitter.  There&#039;s no real point in having an &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; &amp;quot;current&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
charter available for public inspection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups change over time based on participants&#039; needs evolving.  The &lt;br /&gt;
charter is important for the first few weeks of a newsgroup&#039;s life; &lt;br /&gt;
after that the group is going to go where the group goes.  A public &lt;br /&gt;
repository of charters won&#039;t change this at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Group Creation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Request_for_Discussion&amp;diff=1629</id>
		<title>Request for Discussion</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Request_for_Discussion&amp;diff=1629"/>
		<updated>2010-12-15T16:47:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: Redirected page to Content and Format of a Request for Discussion (RFD)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;#REDIRECT [[Content and Format of a Request for Discussion (RFD)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Charters&amp;diff=1628</id>
		<title>Charters</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Charters&amp;diff=1628"/>
		<updated>2010-12-15T16:43:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;See [[Internet Systems Consortium]] for links to the charter repository, such as it is, for each of the [[Big-8]] hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ru igarashi ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:19:36 CST&lt;br /&gt;
From: Ru Igarashi &amp;lt;ru.igarashi@usask.ca&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;h421se$mtc$1@webmail.usask.ca&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In news.groups.proposals Helge Nareid &amp;lt;hn.ng@hnareid.me.uk&amp;gt; wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
[...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; Personally, I think that charter changes should be allowed,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; particularly if there is a compelling case for it - rec.games.bolo&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; would be a good candidate IMHO. However, at this point in time I&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; appear to be in a minority in the B8MB.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&#039;t think it was a question of being allowed or even of&lt;br /&gt;
tradition, rather it was - and still is - a pointless action.&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 never had a repository and machinery to administer&lt;br /&gt;
charters effectively.  I think David and Russ were both agreeable&lt;br /&gt;
to the idea of a charter administration scheme.  As always, the&lt;br /&gt;
big hurdle was manpower, finding someone to start the ball rolling&lt;br /&gt;
and then keep it working (I&#039;m pretty sure Russ pointed this out).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One might ask why we can&#039;t simply use the machinery for&lt;br /&gt;
administering newsgroups.  I think it came back to the&lt;br /&gt;
repository.  The current archive is for control messages.&lt;br /&gt;
Never mind whether control messages get issued for charter&lt;br /&gt;
updates (why bother?).  Having the charter updates mixed in&lt;br /&gt;
with control messages (in the archive) would inevitably lead&lt;br /&gt;
to confusion over which charter holds, in the worst case,&lt;br /&gt;
and to complaints about how difficult it is to find the most&lt;br /&gt;
recent update in the best case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A proper charter management system has to be just that, a&lt;br /&gt;
system, and it should be separate from the group administration&lt;br /&gt;
system.  It should unambiguously present charters, while&lt;br /&gt;
providing a means for submitting and approving updates.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s just a question of finding the people to set it up and&lt;br /&gt;
run it.  If I thought I could guarantee the required amount&lt;br /&gt;
of my resources in the long term, I&#039;d do it.  But I can&#039;t&lt;br /&gt;
make that kind of assurance even in the short term, which&lt;br /&gt;
sucks, because setting up the archive looks kind of fun to&lt;br /&gt;
try.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The alternative, which I pushed while I was active here,&lt;br /&gt;
is to use FAQs to maintain charters.  Charters in group&lt;br /&gt;
creation control messages are not meant to be the&lt;br /&gt;
STANDING charter, merely the STARTING point for the group.  &lt;br /&gt;
How the group gets used afterward has always been considered&lt;br /&gt;
the business of the group&#039;s users.  As such, FAQs can&lt;br /&gt;
be an acceptable means for establishing the standing&lt;br /&gt;
charter.  Control of FAQs is an issue, but when the&lt;br /&gt;
FAQ is aligned with the users, it can be quite effective.&lt;br /&gt;
Much of that machinery exists.  It&#039;s just a matter of&lt;br /&gt;
the users of a particular group agreeing to a mechanism&lt;br /&gt;
for making updates within their group (e.g. voting&lt;br /&gt;
scheme) and to make the FAQ version of the Charter the&lt;br /&gt;
standing charter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ru&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Steve Bonine ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:54:16 CST&lt;br /&gt;
From: Steve Bonine &amp;lt;spb@pobox.com&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;7cjkvef28245gu1@mid.individual.net&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ru Igarashi wrote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; I don&#039;t think it was a question of being allowed or even of&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; tradition, rather it was - and still is - a pointless action.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; The Big-8 never had a repository and machinery to administer&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; charters effectively.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[...]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree that it&#039;s a pointless action, but for rather different reasons &lt;br /&gt;
than you enumerated in your article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For an unmoderated newsgroup, what&#039;s the point?  It&#039;s peer pressure that &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;enforces&amp;quot; the charter for an unmoderated group, whether there&#039;s a &lt;br /&gt;
formal charter-management system or not.  Why put a system in place to &lt;br /&gt;
keep up with charters when they really don&#039;t mean anything?  The people &lt;br /&gt;
who tend to flaunt charters are not the folks who will carefully check &lt;br /&gt;
the text of a charter that&#039;s maintained in a repository.  Changing the &lt;br /&gt;
charter, even if such a change were carefully recorded in a publicly &lt;br /&gt;
available system, would have no effect on the actual operation of the &lt;br /&gt;
newsgroup.  In fact, it might fuel the netcop activity in the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For moderated newsgroups, the moderator(s) set the effective charter of &lt;br /&gt;
the group.  If submissions are out of line, the moderator(s) can inform &lt;br /&gt;
the submitter.  There&#039;s no real point in having an &amp;quot;official&amp;quot; &amp;quot;current&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
charter available for public inspection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups change over time based on participants&#039; needs evolving.  The &lt;br /&gt;
charter is important for the first few weeks of a newsgroup&#039;s life; &lt;br /&gt;
after that the group is going to go where the group goes.  A public &lt;br /&gt;
repository of charters won&#039;t change this at all.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Group Creation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Naming_newsgroups&amp;diff=1627</id>
		<title>Naming newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Naming_newsgroups&amp;diff=1627"/>
		<updated>2010-12-15T04:13:24Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Spelling and Punctuation ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The name of a newsgroup &#039;&#039;is&#039;&#039; its &amp;quot;mailing address.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* The rules for naming newsgroups at this level are therefore set by outside agencies who oversee the standards for the Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP).  See the [[usenet|article on Usenet]] for more information about what NNTP is.&lt;br /&gt;
* Read [[checkgroups]], a list of all Big-8 newsgroups to see what patterns are actually used.&lt;br /&gt;
* For a discussion of the rules themselves, see [http://moleski.net/newsgroups/b8_names.htm &amp;quot;The Proper Formation of Big-8 Newsgroup Names.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Syntax, Semantics, and Taxonomy ==&lt;br /&gt;
* These are higher-level problems not solved by reference to the spelling/punctuation rules imposed by Usenet protocols.  Syntax provides guidelines for the formation of patterns.  Semantics deals with the meaning of words and the relationships between meanings.  Taxonomy groups like with like.  Deciding such questions inevitably involves personal taste about the kinds of patterns that may be generated by giving a newsgroup one name rather than another.  There are no formal rules for settling disputes about these matters. &lt;br /&gt;
* The way a group is named places it in relationship to other newsgroups in [[Checkgroups]].  This can lead to very passionate arguments about the most logical way to group common topics.  Dissatisfaction with the way groups had been named and organized led to [[great renaming|The Great Renaming]].  That, in turn, laid the foundation for the set of newsgroups now known as the [[big-8|Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Examples of how group names create groups of newsgroups ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #1: There seem to be at least three valid places to discuss the problems people have with impaired vision:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     misc.handicap.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
     soc.support.disability.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
     soc.support.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The proponent also polled about whether the name should be &amp;quot;soc.support.vision-loss&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;soc.support.vision-impaired.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #2: A proposal to discuss fishing tournaments has rung these changes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.bassfishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.bass.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.tournaments.bass&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.sport.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #3:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; If someone wants a group to discuss German food, should it be &lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; rec.food.german or rec.food.cuisine.german?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt; LOL.  That involves politics more than naming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     So it does, now that I think of it.....&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #4: Both of these groups exist in the current [[Checkgroups]].  They seem to be twins.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup	Setup and Configuration of Windows 95.&lt;br /&gt;
comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win95	Setup, hardware, and driver issues in Win95.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #5: In 1995, the creation of [ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/humanities/humanities.misc humanities.misc]--a single newsgroup--also created a new hierarchy (&#039;&#039;humanities.*&#039;&#039;) and changed the Big-7 into the Big-8.  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.answers	Repository for periodic USENET articles. (Moderated)&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.classics	Discussion of ancient Greece and Rome.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.design.misc	Theory, practice, history &amp;amp; aesthetic issues in design.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.language.sanskrit	The Sanskrit language and related topics.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare	Poetry, plays, history of Shakespeare.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.misc	General topics in the arts &amp;amp; humanities.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.music.composers.wagner	The life and works of Richard Wagner.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.philosophy.objectivism	The ideas of Ayn Rand. (Moderated)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The .moderated suffix ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many newsgroups that are moderated have &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; in the name, e.g. &lt;br /&gt;
comp.lang.c++.moderated.  Many of them don&#039;t, e.g. comp.ai.  Of the 332 &lt;br /&gt;
moderated groups in the current big-8 list, only 42 of them have &lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; in their name.  In 38 cases, the group has an unmoderated &lt;br /&gt;
counter-part or counter-parts that cover roughly the same topic space.  In &lt;br /&gt;
these cases, the fact that the group is moderated is its distinguishing &lt;br /&gt;
feature, and is something not readily available from the status.  That is, &lt;br /&gt;
not only is this group moderated, it implies that there is also an &lt;br /&gt;
unmoderated equivalent.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6e08abc4e44257b2?hl=en]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is &#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039; a requirement that moderated newsgroups end with &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039;.  The requirement is that, for moderated groups, the [[RFD#newsgroups_line|newsgroup description line]] must end with &#039;&#039;(Moderated)&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; suffix should be used when it adds clarity, generally when the group is an alternative or companion group in a hierarchy.  For example, comp.lang.c++.moderated exists alongside comp.lang.c++.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You might wonder how participants know that a group is moderated if &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; is not a part of the group name.  Many news readers indicate in the title block for the group whether it is moderated by including &#039;&#039;(moderated)&#039;&#039; if appropriate.  This information is supplied to the news reader when it obtains information about the group from the server.  If your news server does not provide this visual cue, &lt;br /&gt;
* Look for an Approved: [[Usenet headers|header]] in articles in the group.  All articles in moderated groups must have this [[Usenet headers|header]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Check for &#039;&#039;(Moderated)&#039;&#039; at the end of the one-line newsgroup description.  If your news reader doesn&#039;t provide the description, check the [[Checkgroups|list of big-8 groups.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== General Guidelines ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We recommend contacting the [[Group Mentors]] for questions about the Big-8 namespace.&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board]] has not created any new guidelines for resolving disputes about where a proposed topic should fit into the existing newsgroup hiearchies.  Each proposal needs to be examined and decided on a case-by-case basis.&lt;br /&gt;
* The following section, &amp;quot;To-day we have naming of parts&amp;quot;, is a very slightly edited version of a classic (1999) article by David W. Wright, [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/naming/part1/ &amp;quot;Guidelines on Usenet Newsgroup Names&amp;quot;].  Amendments to the original document come from changes in the grammar of NNTP and are indicated in [brackets].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== &amp;quot;To-day we have naming of parts.&amp;quot; ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This document is intended to be a primer for use by those involved in creating new Usenet news groups, namely in the &amp;quot;comp&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;humanities&amp;quot;,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;misc&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;news&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;rec&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;soc&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; hierarchies.  The same principles may be used with other hierarchies, but those are beyond the&lt;br /&gt;
scope of this document.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Usenet news group names are structured, hierarchic, taxonomic but not definitive.  They are intended to help users find what they want and news&lt;br /&gt;
administrators manage their systems, to the benefit of their users.  By understanding each of these concepts, you can understand how to select suitable names for new news groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Structured ====&lt;br /&gt;
* [&#039;&#039;see notes above on spelling rules&#039;&#039;]&lt;br /&gt;
News group names are structured into parts separated by dots, for example &amp;quot;rec.pets.dogs&amp;quot;. Each part may be up to [14, 20, or 30] characters long, and should consist only of letters, digits, &amp;quot;+&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-&amp;quot;, with at least one letter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Hierarchic ====&lt;br /&gt;
Names fall into clear hierarchies - for example all computer-related groups are in comp.  Each may be sub-divided into second, third, and lower level hierarchies, such as sci.physics and comp.sys.sun, by adding more parts to the basic name. The first part is the most general (sci or comp), the second more specific, and so on.  The last part completes the actual group name.  As each part implies a further level, words at the same level are included into one part using a hyphen - e.g. misc.invest.real-estate rather than misc.invest.estate.real, which would imply that a real was a type of estate!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Taxonomic ====&lt;br /&gt;
Taxonomy is the science of the classifying things - for example species in biology, or books in a library.   Group names classify subjects into areas and hierarchies.  Getting these right is not easy, for you have to fit in with those already there, and also allow for likely future growth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Not definitive ====&lt;br /&gt;
News group names are inclusive rather than definitive.  That is to say, a group name defines an area in which a message may be posted if there is no other group with a better name fit.  The name does not define exact limits to the group, eliminating subjects that do not exactly match the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Helping users ====&lt;br /&gt;
The group name is often the only clue the user has about the group without reading a selection of articles from the group.  There are currently over 1300 Usenet news groups, and well over 10,000 groups including all the other news hierarchies from alt to zer.  It is not possible for users to read every group to find out which are of interest to them.   Similarly, even a very popular group will only be read by 1% of all Usenet users.  So the name has to make sense to the 99% who are not reading the group.   It should be clear enough to avoid users posting &amp;quot;what is this?&amp;quot; articles, and to ensure that those who *would* like to know more about the subject do recognise the group&#039;s purpose and start to read it and join in.  Also, bear in&lt;br /&gt;
mind that Usenet is global, that users come from many different cultures, and that for many, English is not their first language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to some strong guidelines about choosing names:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Group similar subjects together, in the same hierarchy if possible, so that people looking for a related subject will have a good idea where to find it.   It is often better to put a new group with others in an approximately right &amp;quot;place&amp;quot; than to insist on getting the name precise at the expense of putting the group in some obscure area that many potential users will not look at.&lt;br /&gt;
* Create general groups before creating very specific ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* Dnt Abrv8.  Do not abbreviate or use obscure names.  Your abbreviation may well be recognised by someone else as meaning something entirely different, especially if English is a second language to them.  At the moment, Usenet transport limitations restrict the length of any component to [14, 20, or 30] characters.  This may sometimes force abbreviation, in this case, create as meaningful an abbreviation as possible within [14, 20, or 30] characters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Use English words in group names.  The articles in a group should use whatever language is appropriate for that group, but group names should use English as that is the one language that can be understood by almost all Usenet users.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Helping news administrators ====&lt;br /&gt;
No site now has the disk space to carry 10,000 news groups and keep all their articles for weeks.  So news administrators have to be selective in which groups they carry and how long they keep the articles of each group (expiry times).   Yet with so many groups, they cannot manage each one separately.  So they make use of the hierarchic property, and control news in hierarchies.  For example,  one may keep comp articles longer than rec, another may decide not to take any comp.sys.ibm.* groups as none of their users reads them.   This is the other reason hierarchies are so important, and why a new group should always be fitted into an existing hierarchy if at all possible.  Some new group proposers think it does not matter if their group does not fit in to this scheme, assuming that news administrators who don&#039;t want it can select it out individually: this is a mistaken view.  Every group that a site gets that its users do not read, makes less disk space and so shorter expiry times for the groups they *do* want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== What&#039;s next? ====&lt;br /&gt;
Think about these guidelines before naming your new news group.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remember that name mistakes made in the past when Usenet was much smaller, or now in uncontrolled parts of the net like alt, are no reason to make more mistakes now.  On the contrary, now is the time to correct some of those past mistakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&#039;&#039;non-working e-mail address for uunet&#039;s group-advice removed&#039;&#039;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Naming_newsgroups&amp;diff=1626</id>
		<title>Naming newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Naming_newsgroups&amp;diff=1626"/>
		<updated>2010-12-15T04:12:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* General Guidelines */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Spelling and Punctuation ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The name of a newsgroup &#039;&#039;is&#039;&#039; its &amp;quot;mailing address.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* The rules for naming newsgroups at this level are therefore set by outside agencies who oversee the standards for the Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP).  See the [[usenet|article on Usenet]] for more information about what NNTP is.&lt;br /&gt;
* Read [[checkgroups]], a list of all Big-8 newsgroups to see what patterns are actually used.&lt;br /&gt;
* For a discussion of the rules themselves, see [http://moleski.net/newsgroups/b8_names.htm &amp;quot;The Proper Formation of Big-8 Newsgroup Names.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Syntax, Semantics, and Taxonomy ==&lt;br /&gt;
* These are higher-level problems not solved by reference to the spelling/punctuation rules imposed by Usenet protocols.  Syntax provides guidelines for the formation of patterns.  Semantics deals with the meaning of words and the relationships between meanings.  Taxonomy groups like with like.  Deciding such questions inevitably involves personal taste about the kinds of patterns that may be generated by giving a newsgroup one name rather than another.  There are no formal rules for settling disputes about these matters. &lt;br /&gt;
* The way a group is named places it in relationship to other newsgroups in [[Checkgroups]].  This can lead to very passionate arguments about the most logical way to group common topics.  Dissatisfaction with the way groups had been named and organized led to [[great renaming|The Great Renaming]].  That, in turn, laid the foundation for the set of newsgroups now known as the [[big-8|Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Examples of how group names create groups of newsgroups ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #1: There seem to be at least three valid places to discuss the problems people have with impaired vision:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     misc.handicap.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
     soc.support.disability.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
     soc.support.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The proponent also polled about whether the name should be &amp;quot;soc.support.vision-loss&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;soc.support.vision-impaired.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #2: A proposal to discuss fishing tournaments has rung these changes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.bassfishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.bass.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.tournaments.bass&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.sport.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #3:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; If someone wants a group to discuss German food, should it be &lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; rec.food.german or rec.food.cuisine.german?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt; LOL.  That involves politics more than naming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     So it does, now that I think of it.....&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #4: Both of these groups exist in the current [[Checkgroups]].  They seem to be twins.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup	Setup and Configuration of Windows 95.&lt;br /&gt;
comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win95	Setup, hardware, and driver issues in Win95.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #5: In 1995, the creation of [ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/humanities/humanities.misc humanities.misc]--a single newsgroup--also created a new hierarchy (&#039;&#039;humanities.*//) and changed the Big-7 into the Big-8.  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.answers	Repository for periodic USENET articles. (Moderated)&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.classics	Discussion of ancient Greece and Rome.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.design.misc	Theory, practice, history &amp;amp; aesthetic issues in design.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.language.sanskrit	The Sanskrit language and related topics.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare	Poetry, plays, history of Shakespeare.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.misc	General topics in the arts &amp;amp; humanities.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.music.composers.wagner	The life and works of Richard Wagner.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.philosophy.objectivism	The ideas of Ayn Rand. (Moderated)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The .moderated suffix ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many newsgroups that are moderated have &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; in the name, e.g. &lt;br /&gt;
comp.lang.c++.moderated.  Many of them don&#039;t, e.g. comp.ai.  Of the 332 &lt;br /&gt;
moderated groups in the current big-8 list, only 42 of them have &lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; in their name.  In 38 cases, the group has an unmoderated &lt;br /&gt;
counter-part or counter-parts that cover roughly the same topic space.  In &lt;br /&gt;
these cases, the fact that the group is moderated is its distinguishing &lt;br /&gt;
feature, and is something not readily available from the status.  That is, &lt;br /&gt;
not only is this group moderated, it implies that there is also an &lt;br /&gt;
unmoderated equivalent.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6e08abc4e44257b2?hl=en]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is &#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039; a requirement that moderated newsgroups end with &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039;.  The requirement is that, for moderated groups, the [[RFD#newsgroups_line|newsgroup description line]] must end with &#039;&#039;(Moderated)&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; suffix should be used when it adds clarity, generally when the group is an alternative or companion group in a hierarchy.  For example, comp.lang.c++.moderated exists alongside comp.lang.c++.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You might wonder how participants know that a group is moderated if &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; is not a part of the group name.  Many news readers indicate in the title block for the group whether it is moderated by including &#039;&#039;(moderated)&#039;&#039; if appropriate.  This information is supplied to the news reader when it obtains information about the group from the server.  If your news server does not provide this visual cue, &lt;br /&gt;
* Look for an Approved: [[Usenet headers|header]] in articles in the group.  All articles in moderated groups must have this [[Usenet headers|header]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Check for &#039;&#039;(Moderated)&#039;&#039; at the end of the one-line newsgroup description.  If your news reader doesn&#039;t provide the description, check the [[Checkgroups|list of big-8 groups.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== General Guidelines ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We recommend contacting the [[Group Mentors]] for questions about the Big-8 namespace.&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board]] has not created any new guidelines for resolving disputes about where a proposed topic should fit into the existing newsgroup hiearchies.  Each proposal needs to be examined and decided on a case-by-case basis.&lt;br /&gt;
* The following section, &amp;quot;To-day we have naming of parts&amp;quot;, is a very slightly edited version of a classic (1999) article by David W. Wright, [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/naming/part1/ &amp;quot;Guidelines on Usenet Newsgroup Names&amp;quot;].  Amendments to the original document come from changes in the grammar of NNTP and are indicated in [brackets].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== &amp;quot;To-day we have naming of parts.&amp;quot; ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This document is intended to be a primer for use by those involved in creating new Usenet news groups, namely in the &amp;quot;comp&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;humanities&amp;quot;,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;misc&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;news&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;rec&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;soc&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; hierarchies.  The same principles may be used with other hierarchies, but those are beyond the&lt;br /&gt;
scope of this document.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Usenet news group names are structured, hierarchic, taxonomic but not definitive.  They are intended to help users find what they want and news&lt;br /&gt;
administrators manage their systems, to the benefit of their users.  By understanding each of these concepts, you can understand how to select suitable names for new news groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Structured ====&lt;br /&gt;
* [&#039;&#039;see notes above on spelling rules&#039;&#039;]&lt;br /&gt;
News group names are structured into parts separated by dots, for example &amp;quot;rec.pets.dogs&amp;quot;. Each part may be up to [14, 20, or 30] characters long, and should consist only of letters, digits, &amp;quot;+&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-&amp;quot;, with at least one letter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Hierarchic ====&lt;br /&gt;
Names fall into clear hierarchies - for example all computer-related groups are in comp.  Each may be sub-divided into second, third, and lower level hierarchies, such as sci.physics and comp.sys.sun, by adding more parts to the basic name. The first part is the most general (sci or comp), the second more specific, and so on.  The last part completes the actual group name.  As each part implies a further level, words at the same level are included into one part using a hyphen - e.g. misc.invest.real-estate rather than misc.invest.estate.real, which would imply that a real was a type of estate!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Taxonomic ====&lt;br /&gt;
Taxonomy is the science of the classifying things - for example species in biology, or books in a library.   Group names classify subjects into areas and hierarchies.  Getting these right is not easy, for you have to fit in with those already there, and also allow for likely future growth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Not definitive ====&lt;br /&gt;
News group names are inclusive rather than definitive.  That is to say, a group name defines an area in which a message may be posted if there is no other group with a better name fit.  The name does not define exact limits to the group, eliminating subjects that do not exactly match the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Helping users ====&lt;br /&gt;
The group name is often the only clue the user has about the group without reading a selection of articles from the group.  There are currently over 1300 Usenet news groups, and well over 10,000 groups including all the other news hierarchies from alt to zer.  It is not possible for users to read every group to find out which are of interest to them.   Similarly, even a very popular group will only be read by 1% of all Usenet users.  So the name has to make sense to the 99% who are not reading the group.   It should be clear enough to avoid users posting &amp;quot;what is this?&amp;quot; articles, and to ensure that those who *would* like to know more about the subject do recognise the group&#039;s purpose and start to read it and join in.  Also, bear in&lt;br /&gt;
mind that Usenet is global, that users come from many different cultures, and that for many, English is not their first language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to some strong guidelines about choosing names:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Group similar subjects together, in the same hierarchy if possible, so that people looking for a related subject will have a good idea where to find it.   It is often better to put a new group with others in an approximately right &amp;quot;place&amp;quot; than to insist on getting the name precise at the expense of putting the group in some obscure area that many potential users will not look at.&lt;br /&gt;
* Create general groups before creating very specific ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* Dnt Abrv8.  Do not abbreviate or use obscure names.  Your abbreviation may well be recognised by someone else as meaning something entirely different, especially if English is a second language to them.  At the moment, Usenet transport limitations restrict the length of any component to [14, 20, or 30] characters.  This may sometimes force abbreviation, in this case, create as meaningful an abbreviation as possible within [14, 20, or 30] characters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Use English words in group names.  The articles in a group should use whatever language is appropriate for that group, but group names should use English as that is the one language that can be understood by almost all Usenet users.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Helping news administrators ====&lt;br /&gt;
No site now has the disk space to carry 10,000 news groups and keep all their articles for weeks.  So news administrators have to be selective in which groups they carry and how long they keep the articles of each group (expiry times).   Yet with so many groups, they cannot manage each one separately.  So they make use of the hierarchic property, and control news in hierarchies.  For example,  one may keep comp articles longer than rec, another may decide not to take any comp.sys.ibm.* groups as none of their users reads them.   This is the other reason hierarchies are so important, and why a new group should always be fitted into an existing hierarchy if at all possible.  Some new group proposers think it does not matter if their group does not fit in to this scheme, assuming that news administrators who don&#039;t want it can select it out individually: this is a mistaken view.  Every group that a site gets that its users do not read, makes less disk space and so shorter expiry times for the groups they *do* want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== What&#039;s next? ====&lt;br /&gt;
Think about these guidelines before naming your new news group.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remember that name mistakes made in the past when Usenet was much smaller, or now in uncontrolled parts of the net like alt, are no reason to make more mistakes now.  On the contrary, now is the time to correct some of those past mistakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&#039;&#039;non-working e-mail address for uunet&#039;s group-advice removed&#039;&#039;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Naming_newsgroups&amp;diff=1625</id>
		<title>Naming newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Naming_newsgroups&amp;diff=1625"/>
		<updated>2010-12-15T04:10:01Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* What&amp;#039;s next? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Spelling and Punctuation ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The name of a newsgroup &#039;&#039;is&#039;&#039; its &amp;quot;mailing address.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* The rules for naming newsgroups at this level are therefore set by outside agencies who oversee the standards for the Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP).  See the [[usenet|article on Usenet]] for more information about what NNTP is.&lt;br /&gt;
* Read [[checkgroups]], a list of all Big-8 newsgroups to see what patterns are actually used.&lt;br /&gt;
* For a discussion of the rules themselves, see [http://moleski.net/newsgroups/b8_names.htm &amp;quot;The Proper Formation of Big-8 Newsgroup Names.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Syntax, Semantics, and Taxonomy ==&lt;br /&gt;
* These are higher-level problems not solved by reference to the spelling/punctuation rules imposed by Usenet protocols.  Syntax provides guidelines for the formation of patterns.  Semantics deals with the meaning of words and the relationships between meanings.  Taxonomy groups like with like.  Deciding such questions inevitably involves personal taste about the kinds of patterns that may be generated by giving a newsgroup one name rather than another.  There are no formal rules for settling disputes about these matters. &lt;br /&gt;
* The way a group is named places it in relationship to other newsgroups in [[Checkgroups]].  This can lead to very passionate arguments about the most logical way to group common topics.  Dissatisfaction with the way groups had been named and organized led to [[great renaming|The Great Renaming]].  That, in turn, laid the foundation for the set of newsgroups now known as the [[big-8|Big-8]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Examples of how group names create groups of newsgroups ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #1: There seem to be at least three valid places to discuss the problems people have with impaired vision:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     misc.handicap.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
     soc.support.disability.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
     soc.support.vision-impaired&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The proponent also polled about whether the name should be &amp;quot;soc.support.vision-loss&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;soc.support.vision-impaired.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #2: A proposal to discuss fishing tournaments has rung these changes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.bassfishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.bass.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.tournaments.bass&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.outdoors.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.sport.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
     rec.fishing.tournaments&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #3:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; If someone wants a group to discuss German food, should it be &lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; rec.food.german or rec.food.cuisine.german?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     &amp;gt;&amp;gt; LOL.  That involves politics more than naming.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
     So it does, now that I think of it.....&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #4: Both of these groups exist in the current [[Checkgroups]].  They seem to be twins.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup	Setup and Configuration of Windows 95.&lt;br /&gt;
comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win95	Setup, hardware, and driver issues in Win95.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Example #5: In 1995, the creation of [ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/humanities/humanities.misc humanities.misc]--a single newsgroup--also created a new hierarchy (&#039;&#039;humanities.*//) and changed the Big-7 into the Big-8.  &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.answers	Repository for periodic USENET articles. (Moderated)&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.classics	Discussion of ancient Greece and Rome.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.design.misc	Theory, practice, history &amp;amp; aesthetic issues in design.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.language.sanskrit	The Sanskrit language and related topics.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare	Poetry, plays, history of Shakespeare.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.misc	General topics in the arts &amp;amp; humanities.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.music.composers.wagner	The life and works of Richard Wagner.&lt;br /&gt;
	humanities.philosophy.objectivism	The ideas of Ayn Rand. (Moderated)&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The .moderated suffix ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many newsgroups that are moderated have &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; in the name, e.g. &lt;br /&gt;
comp.lang.c++.moderated.  Many of them don&#039;t, e.g. comp.ai.  Of the 332 &lt;br /&gt;
moderated groups in the current big-8 list, only 42 of them have &lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; in their name.  In 38 cases, the group has an unmoderated &lt;br /&gt;
counter-part or counter-parts that cover roughly the same topic space.  In &lt;br /&gt;
these cases, the fact that the group is moderated is its distinguishing &lt;br /&gt;
feature, and is something not readily available from the status.  That is, &lt;br /&gt;
not only is this group moderated, it implies that there is also an &lt;br /&gt;
unmoderated equivalent.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6e08abc4e44257b2?hl=en]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There is &#039;&#039;not&#039;&#039; a requirement that moderated newsgroups end with &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039;.  The requirement is that, for moderated groups, the [[RFD#newsgroups_line|newsgroup description line]] must end with &#039;&#039;(Moderated)&#039;&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; suffix should be used when it adds clarity, generally when the group is an alternative or companion group in a hierarchy.  For example, comp.lang.c++.moderated exists alongside comp.lang.c++.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You might wonder how participants know that a group is moderated if &#039;&#039;.moderated&#039;&#039; is not a part of the group name.  Many news readers indicate in the title block for the group whether it is moderated by including &#039;&#039;(moderated)&#039;&#039; if appropriate.  This information is supplied to the news reader when it obtains information about the group from the server.  If your news server does not provide this visual cue, &lt;br /&gt;
* Look for an Approved: [[Usenet headers|header]] in articles in the group.  All articles in moderated groups must have this [[Usenet headers|header]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Check for &#039;&#039;(Moderated)&#039;&#039; at the end of the one-line newsgroup description.  If your news reader doesn&#039;t provide the description, check the [[Checkgroups|list of big-8 groups.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== General Guidelines ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* We recommend contacting the [[Group Mentors]] for questions about the Big-8 namespace.&lt;br /&gt;
* The [[b8mb|Big-8 Management Board]] has not created any new guidelines for resolving disputes about where a proposed topic should fit into the existing newsgroup hiearchies.  Each proposal needs to be examined and decided on a case-by-case basis.&lt;br /&gt;
* The following is a very slightly edited version of a classic (1999) article by David W. Wright, [http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/creating-newsgroups/naming/part1/ &amp;quot;Guidelines on Usenet Newsgroup Names&amp;quot;].  Amendments to the original document come from changes in the grammar of NNTP and are indicated in [brackets].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== &amp;quot;To-day we have naming of parts.&amp;quot; ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This document is intended to be a primer for use by those involved in creating new Usenet news groups, namely in the &amp;quot;comp&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;humanities&amp;quot;,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;misc&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;news&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;rec&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sci&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;soc&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;talk&amp;quot; hierarchies.  The same principles may be used with other hierarchies, but those are beyond the&lt;br /&gt;
scope of this document.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Usenet news group names are structured, hierarchic, taxonomic but not definitive.  They are intended to help users find what they want and news&lt;br /&gt;
administrators manage their systems, to the benefit of their users.  By understanding each of these concepts, you can understand how to select suitable names for new news groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Structured ====&lt;br /&gt;
* [//see notes above on spelling rules&#039;&#039;]&lt;br /&gt;
News group names are structured into parts separated by dots, for example &amp;quot;rec.pets.dogs&amp;quot;. Each part may be up to [14, 20, or 30] characters long, and should consist only of letters, digits, &amp;quot;+&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;-&amp;quot;, with at least one letter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Hierarchic ====&lt;br /&gt;
Names fall into clear hierarchies - for example all computer-related groups are in comp.  Each may be sub-divided into second, third, and lower level hierarchies, such as sci.physics and comp.sys.sun, by adding more parts to the basic name. The first part is the most general (sci or comp), the second more specific, and so on.  The last part completes the actual group name.  As each part implies a further level, words at the same level are included into one part using a hyphen - e.g. misc.invest.real-estate rather than misc.invest.estate.real, which would imply that a real was a type of estate!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Taxonomic ====&lt;br /&gt;
Taxonomy is the science of the classifying things - for example species in biology, or books in a library.   Group names classify subjects into areas and hierarchies.  Getting these right is not easy, for you have to fit in with those already there, and also allow for likely future growth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Not definitive ====&lt;br /&gt;
News group names are inclusive rather than definitive.  That is to say, a group name defines an area in which a message may be posted if there is no other group with a better name fit.  The name does not define exact limits to the group, eliminating subjects that do not exactly match the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Helping users ====&lt;br /&gt;
The group name is often the only clue the user has about the group without reading a selection of articles from the group.  There are currently over 1300 Usenet news groups, and well over 10,000 groups including all the other news hierarchies from alt to zer.  It is not possible for users to read every group to find out which are of interest to them.   Similarly, even a very popular group will only be read by 1% of all Usenet users.  So the name has to make sense to the 99% who are not reading the group.   It should be clear enough to avoid users posting &amp;quot;what is this?&amp;quot; articles, and to ensure that those who *would* like to know more about the subject do recognise the group&#039;s purpose and start to read it and join in.  Also, bear in&lt;br /&gt;
mind that Usenet is global, that users come from many different cultures, and that for many, English is not their first language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This leads to some strong guidelines about choosing names:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Group similar subjects together, in the same hierarchy if possible, so that people looking for a related subject will have a good idea where to find it.   It is often better to put a new group with others in an approximately right &amp;quot;place&amp;quot; than to insist on getting the name precise at the expense of putting the group in some obscure area that many potential users will not look at.&lt;br /&gt;
* Create general groups before creating very specific ones.&lt;br /&gt;
* Dnt Abrv8.  Do not abbreviate or use obscure names.  Your abbreviation may well be recognised by someone else as meaning something entirely different, especially if English is a second language to them.  At the moment, Usenet transport limitations restrict the length of any component to [14, 20, or 30] characters.  This may sometimes force abbreviation, in this case, create as meaningful an abbreviation as possible within [14, 20, or 30] characters.&lt;br /&gt;
* Use English words in group names.  The articles in a group should use whatever language is appropriate for that group, but group names should use English as that is the one language that can be understood by almost all Usenet users.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== Helping news administrators ====&lt;br /&gt;
No site now has the disk space to carry 10,000 news groups and keep all their articles for weeks.  So news administrators have to be selective in which groups they carry and how long they keep the articles of each group (expiry times).   Yet with so many groups, they cannot manage each one separately.  So they make use of the hierarchic property, and control news in hierarchies.  For example,  one may keep comp articles longer than rec, another may decide not to take any comp.sys.ibm.* groups as none of their users reads them.   This is the other reason hierarchies are so important, and why a new group should always be fitted into an existing hierarchy if at all possible.  Some new group proposers think it does not matter if their group does not fit in to this scheme, assuming that news administrators who don&#039;t want it can select it out individually: this is a mistaken view.  Every group that a site gets that its users do not read, makes less disk space and so shorter expiry times for the groups they *do* want.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==== What&#039;s next? ====&lt;br /&gt;
Think about these guidelines before naming your new news group.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remember that name mistakes made in the past when Usenet was much smaller, or now in uncontrolled parts of the net like alt, are no reason to make more mistakes now.  On the contrary, now is the time to correct some of those past mistakes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[&#039;&#039;non-working e-mail address for uunet&#039;s group-advice removed&#039;&#039;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1624</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1624"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T17:14:27Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to [[#Moderation Sofwater|moderation software]] that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[#Moderation Software|Moderation software (described below)]] offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the [[RFD]], once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the [[RFD]], but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
;Technical answer&lt;br /&gt;
:A newgroup message is issued to create a new Usenet newsgroup. The body of the Control field contains one mandatory argument, the name of the new group. The second argument is optional. If present it consists of the keyword moderated. The body of the message typically contains tagline, charter and rationale.&lt;br /&gt;
:If the group already exists, only the status of the group is changed, i.e. from moderated to unmoderated or vice-versa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
;Problems with making such a change&lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. &lt;br /&gt;
:A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
;Policy in the Big-8&lt;br /&gt;
:The board is [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups|on record as opposed to changed unmoderated groups to moderated in the Big-8.]]  In view of the problems of making such changes (which are technically feasible), the benefits of changing a group&#039;s moderation status do not seem to be worth the costs involved.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;&#039;Please note well&#039;&#039;&#039;: The [[Big-8]], despite its name, is only a small subset of [[Usenet]].  The [[b8mb|Board]] only makes policy for the [[Big-8]].  [[Other hierarchies]] have their own policies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&amp;diff=1623</id>
		<title>MediaWiki:Sidebar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&amp;diff=1623"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T17:11:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* general&lt;br /&gt;
** Big-8 Usenet|Home&lt;br /&gt;
** Category:Group Creation|Newsgroup creation&lt;br /&gt;
** Category:Group Removal|Newsgroup removal&lt;br /&gt;
** Board policies|Board policies&lt;br /&gt;
** Category:FAQs|FAQs&lt;br /&gt;
** Glossary|Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
** helppage|help&lt;br /&gt;
* announcements&lt;br /&gt;
** Announcements|Recent posts &lt;br /&gt;
** Archived Announcements|Archived posts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* SEARCH&lt;br /&gt;
* views&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:AllPages| All pages&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:Categories|Categories&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:RecentChanges|Recent changes&lt;br /&gt;
* TOOLBOX&lt;br /&gt;
* LANGUAGES&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:Upload|Upload&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&amp;diff=1622</id>
		<title>MediaWiki:Sidebar</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&amp;diff=1622"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T17:11:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;* general&lt;br /&gt;
** Big-8 Usenet|Home&lt;br /&gt;
** Category:Group Creation|Newsgroup creation&lt;br /&gt;
** Category:Group Removal|Newsgroup removal&lt;br /&gt;
** Board policies|Board policies&lt;br /&gt;
** Category:FAQs|FAQs&lt;br /&gt;
** Glossary|Glossary&lt;br /&gt;
** helppage|help&lt;br /&gt;
* announcements&lt;br /&gt;
** Announcements|Recent announcements&lt;br /&gt;
** Archived Announcements|Archived announcements&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* SEARCH&lt;br /&gt;
* views&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:AllPages| All pages&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:Categories|Categories&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:RecentChanges|Recent changes&lt;br /&gt;
* TOOLBOX&lt;br /&gt;
* LANGUAGES&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;
** Special:Upload|Upload&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moleski&amp;diff=1621</id>
		<title>User talk:Moleski</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moleski&amp;diff=1621"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T17:10:42Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* Sidebar */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;First edit: --[[User:Moleski|Moleski]] 17:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;MediaWiki has been successfully installed.&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to clean up interwiki links.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sidebar ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1620</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1620"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T16:03:50Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* Can a group have more than one moderator? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to [[#Moderation Sofwater|moderation software]] that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[#Moderation Software|Moderation software (described below)]] offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the [[RFD]], once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the [[RFD]], but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
;Technical answer&lt;br /&gt;
:To change an unmoderated group to moderated, you send a control message (cmsg) removing the unmoderated group and a control message to create a moderated group of the same name.  &lt;br /&gt;
;Problems with making such a change&lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. &lt;br /&gt;
:A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
;Policy in the Big-8&lt;br /&gt;
:The board is [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups|on record as opposing such changes in the Big-8.]]  In view of the problems of making such changes (which are technically feasible), the benefits of changing a groups&#039; moderation status do not seem to be worth the costs involved.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;&#039;Please note well&#039;&#039;&#039;: The [[Big-8]], despite its name, is only a small subset of [[Usenet]].  The [[b8mb|Board]] only makes policy for the [[Big-8]].  [[Other hierarchies]] have their own policies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1619</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1619"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T16:02:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* How does moderation work? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to [[#Moderation Sofwater|moderation software]] that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Moderation software (described below) offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the RFD, once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the RFD, but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
;Technical answer&lt;br /&gt;
:To change an unmoderated group to moderated, you send a control message (cmsg) removing the unmoderated group and a control message to create a moderated group of the same name.  &lt;br /&gt;
;Problems with making such a change&lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. &lt;br /&gt;
:A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
;Policy in the Big-8&lt;br /&gt;
:The board is [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups|on record as opposing such changes in the Big-8.]]  In view of the problems of making such changes (which are technically feasible), the benefits of changing a groups&#039; moderation status do not seem to be worth the costs involved.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;&#039;Please note well&#039;&#039;&#039;: The [[Big-8]], despite its name, is only a small subset of [[Usenet]].  The [[b8mb|Board]] only makes policy for the [[Big-8]].  [[Other hierarchies]] have their own policies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1618</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1618"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T16:01:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to moderation software that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Moderation software (described below) offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the RFD, once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the RFD, but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
;Technical answer&lt;br /&gt;
:To change an unmoderated group to moderated, you send a control message (cmsg) removing the unmoderated group and a control message to create a moderated group of the same name.  &lt;br /&gt;
;Problems with making such a change&lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. &lt;br /&gt;
:A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
;Policy in the Big-8&lt;br /&gt;
:The board is [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups|on record as opposing such changes in the Big-8.]]  In view of the problems of making such changes (which are technically feasible), the benefits of changing a groups&#039; moderation status do not seem to be worth the costs involved.&lt;br /&gt;
:&#039;&#039;&#039;Please note well&#039;&#039;&#039;: The [[Big-8]], despite its name, is only a small subset of [[Usenet]].  The [[b8mb|Board]] only makes policy for the [[Big-8]].  [[Other hierarchies]] have their own policies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1617</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1617"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T15:57:36Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to moderation software that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Moderation software (described below) offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the RFD, once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the RFD, but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
;Technical answer&lt;br /&gt;
:To change an unmoderated group to moderated, you send a control message (cmsg) removing the unmoderated group and a control message to create a moderated group of the same name.  &lt;br /&gt;
;Problems with making such a change&lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. &lt;br /&gt;
:A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
;Policy in the Big-8&lt;br /&gt;
:The board is [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups|on record as opposing such changes in the Big-8.]]  In view of the problems of making such changes (which are technically feasible), the benefits of changing a groups&#039; moderation status do not seem to be worth the costs involved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1616</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1616"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T15:53:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to moderation software that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Moderation software (described below) offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the RFD, once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the RFD, but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
;Technical answer&lt;br /&gt;
:To change an unmoderated group to moderated, you send a control message (cmsg) removing the unmoderated group and a control message to create a moderated group of the same name.  &lt;br /&gt;
;Problems with making such a change&lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. &lt;br /&gt;
:A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1615</id>
		<title>Moderated Newsgroups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Moderated_Newsgroups&amp;diff=1615"/>
		<updated>2010-12-13T15:52:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* How does a moderator change the submission address? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== How does moderation work? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. A poster sends message (via NNTP post) to a [[NSP|news service provider (NSP).]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The NSP&#039;s news server sees the group is moderated, and sends the post via e-mail using SMTP.  The address used by the NSP is the name-of-the-group, substituting hyphens for periods, plus &amp;lt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;gt;.  For news.announce.newgroups, the ISC address comes out as:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;news-announce-newgroups@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. The e-mail is directed to a [[relays|moderation relay]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. The relay looks up moderator contact addresses and sends the message (via SMTP) to email address of the moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator then process the post using various techniques.  Many pass the post to moderation software that does an initial evaluation of the post.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. If the post is approved, a special [[Usenet headers|header]] is added to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. The post is sent to an NNTP server and is then circulated through [[Usenet]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can a group have more than one moderator? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The group will have only one submission address in the relay system described above.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What happens to the post after it reaches the contact address is up to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Moderation software (described below) offers various methods for a group of moderators to work together.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the moderator(s) is/are normally listed as part of the RFD, once the newsgroup is created there is no specific procedure for adding/removing/changing moderators.  It&#039;s nice to have that procedure spelled out in the RFD, but not mandatory.  In essence, once the group is created, whoever has control of the submission email address has control of the group. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group change moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ideally, the old moderator or team hands off control of the group to the new moderator(s) by sending an e-mail to [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].  Up-to-date contact addresses for the moderator(s) should be supplied in that e-mail at the same time that the request is made.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As a courtesy but as not a requirement, the outgoing moderator might inform the [mailto:board@big-8.org Big-8 Management Board] about the change in moderators.  It is the ISC, not the Board, that maintains the official list of submission addresses used by the moderation system.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the original moderation scheme seems to be broken, interested parties may initiate a [[MVI|Moderator Vacancy Investigation]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a moderator change the submission address? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Same as above: send the request and current contact address(es) for the moderator(s) to: [mailto:moderators-request@isc.org moderators-request@isc.org].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does one change an Unmoderated group to a Moderated group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
:To change an unmoderated group to moderated, you send a control message (cmsg) removing the unmoderated group and a control message to create a moderated group of the same name.  &lt;br /&gt;
:Some servers will honor one of the cmsg&#039;s and not the other.  Some will honor both.  Some will honor neither.  The result will be that for some people the group disappears entirely.  For others there appears to be no change.  For yet others, the group changes to moderated, but their server may or may not handle moderated groups correctly.&lt;br /&gt;
:Bad things happen as a result of some servers showing the group as moderated and others showing it as unmoderated.  Messages posted to servers that have the group unmoderated are posted immediately on that server and delivered to the server&#039;s peers, where they will show up on some of the other servers that still have the group as unmoderated. Most peers that show the group to be moderated will drop the messages, so they won&#039;t get good propagation.  A few servers will forward the message for moderation, but often with a time delay or a new message ID, so the moderators may receive multiple copies of the same message. A message to a server that shows the group as moderated will be forwarded to the moderators for approval and then if it is on charter it will be approved and appear on almost all servers that still have the group in some form.  Posts following up to that message from servers that have the group marked as unmoderated will face poor propagation and will not appear on servers that show it as moderated, so the OP will never see those followups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Can trusted posters have their posts appear without moderation? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes.  How that works is determined by the moderation software that receives posts sent from the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What if my news server doesn&#039;t carry the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;One thing that I&#039;ve found incredibly useful for moderated groups is to set&lt;br /&gt;
up a parallel mailing list that receives the posts to the newsgroup, and&lt;br /&gt;
then point the address for the mailing list at the submission address for&lt;br /&gt;
the group.  I don&#039;t know if Igor&#039;s system can do this for you, but if it&lt;br /&gt;
can, it may be worth considering.  Even a lot of Usenet readers prefer&lt;br /&gt;
mailing lists for particular groups or under particular circumstances&lt;br /&gt;
(while changing providers, when on vacation, etc.) and then readers who&lt;br /&gt;
can&#039;t manage to get their local provider to add the group can at least use&lt;br /&gt;
the mailing list version&amp;quot; (Russ Allbery).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why don&#039;t my posts show up in the group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. Your newsreader software may not be properly configured to communicate with your NSP.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. Your NSP may not have the newsgroup properly identified as moderated.  If the NSP&#039;s configuration is inaccurate, the post will circulate only on that news system and will not be relayed to the ISC and then to the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. Your NSP may not be using a valid domain or the proper format for the envelope address.  The e-mail containing the post will be thrown away before it reaches the [[Relays|moderation relay]] so it never arrives at the moderator&#039;s server.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. ISC.ORG&#039;s list of moderator contact addresses may be flawed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. The moderator or the moderation software may be making errors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. The moderator may have rejected the post.  If you did not include a decipherable e-mail address in the post, then there is no way for the moderator to send a rejection slip.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7. E-mail (SMTP) is used to relay your post from NSP to the ISC to the moderator of the group.  E-mail does occasionally get lost for one reason or another due to hardware or software problems in the transit systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I bypass my News Service Provider? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to the ISC address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** The fact that moderation relies on e-mail means that posts may be submitted to a moderator via e-mail.  &lt;br /&gt;
** Take the name of the newsgroup you wish to reach, substitute hyphens for periods, append &amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;@moderators.isc.org&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;, and send your post with your e-mail software to that address.  &lt;br /&gt;
** If the ISC has the correct submission address in its database, your e-mail will be forwarded to the moderator(s) of the group.&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;e-mail your post to submission address of the group&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
** If you know the group&#039;s submission address, you can e-mail your post to that address directly.&lt;br /&gt;
** The advantage of this method is that you bypass the entire relay system.  &lt;br /&gt;
** The disadvantage of this method is that there is no way to derive the submission address from the name of the group as there is when using the ISC relay.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you use e-mail to bypass your News Service Provider, the &amp;quot;envelope&amp;quot; wrapped around your post will (as a general rule) match your From: address.  You must therefore use a From: address with a domain in the Domain Name Service (DNS) registry and in the proper format--otherwise the ISC moderation relays or the e-mail server for the moderation submission address will discard the e-mail without looking at it.  (&#039;&#039;This is a fundamental spam-avoidance technique.  People started rejecting mail with non-resolving envelope From: addresses because it blocked spam and almost no legitimate mail.  For example, sendmail 8.9, released in 2000, blocks mail with unresolvable envelope-from addresses *by default*.  On some systems, it may be possible to use a valid envelope sending address and an invalid From: address in the message [[Usenet headers|headers]].&#039;&#039;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Do moderators edit posts? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Depending on the group, the moderator &#039;&#039;may&#039;&#039; edit your post first.  &lt;br /&gt;
* The kind of edits that happen in practice, as a general rule, would be to convert a html email to a text one, to remove binaries, to trim or abridge material, or to add comments.  &lt;br /&gt;
* In general, the moderator should not change the actual content or meaning of your post without your approval, but might change some superficial things about it to make it conform to the group&#039;s guidelines.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens when a post is rejected? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* If your post does not appear to be obvious spam, and the moderators can determine your email address from the address in your post (note that this is generally NOT the envelope-from but the From: or Reply-To: [[Usenet headers|header]]) they will generally email you and let you know that it was rejected and why.&lt;br /&gt;
* If you post with an forged email address that can&#039;t be `decoded&#039;, you will not receive any explanation why your post was rejected.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to change their policies? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who can force the moderators to obey the group charter? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Nobody.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Who appoints new moderator(s)? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The old moderator(s).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can we get rid of our moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Ask them to resign and give control of the group to someone else.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why won&#039;t you give us more help with our group? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The group belongs to the moderators and the users.&lt;br /&gt;
* Usenet is not structured in such a way that outsiders can intervene.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why does stuff get into the group that is not approved by the moderators? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* There are holes in the system that can be exploited by antagonists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Why doesn&#039;t anybody fix the holes in the system? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* That&#039;s above my pay grade.  Wild guess: the expense (time and effort) of doing so is greater than the benefit?&lt;br /&gt;
* If you have the technical expertise to close the loopholes and want to work to do so, you might want to [[:workgroups:volunteer|volunteer]] to join the Usenet Moderators Committee.&lt;br /&gt;
* Some moderators use &#039;&#039;&#039;pgpmoose&#039;&#039;&#039; to discourage abuse.  pgpmoose works at the modbot level; when a post is approved, it is digitally signed (in the [[Usenet headers|headers]]) to confirm that the post really did come through the modbot.  A second &#039;bot then monitors the group, and verifies the signature of every post that makes it through.  If any posts are found that are *not* approved by the &#039;bot, then a cancel message is issued.  [http://lists.big-8.org/mailman/listinfo/pgpmoose/|Visit this page] to subscribe to a pgpmoose mailing list.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is the Usenet Volunteer Moderators committee? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It&#039;s a [[UVM|group of Usenet moderators]] who are willing to help other moderators.&lt;br /&gt;
* Want to [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu take over maintenance of this page]?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is &#039;demoderation&#039;? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Turning a moderated group into an unmoderated group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See also [[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How does a group get demoderated? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Moderators may abandon the group explicitly or implicitly.&lt;br /&gt;
* An RFD is circulated.&lt;br /&gt;
* If the decision is made the change the moderation status, the moderation flag will be removed from [[big-8_list|Checklists]] and a notice of the change will be circulated via news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What happens if a news service provider (NSP) doesn&#039;t change the moderation flag? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* The post will be relayed from the NSP to the ISC.&lt;br /&gt;
* The ISC has an autoresponder that will return the post to the sender with a note explaining that the group is no longer moderated.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== How can I run unix moderation software in Windows? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* Try [http://www.cygwin.com/ Cygwin].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== What is PGP Moose? ==&lt;br /&gt;
* It uses Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) to help weed out unauthorized posts in moderated groups.  See [http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/pgpmoose.html this web site.]  See also the comp.security.pgp.discuss and alt.security.pgp newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
===Documents===&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Document&lt;br /&gt;
!Author&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/mod-pitfalls.html Pitfalls of Newsgroup Moderation]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html#S4 Usenet Hierarchy Administration]&lt;br /&gt;
|Russ Allbery &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/2ef82b50e3e349c3?hl=en Moderation Techniques and Software]&lt;br /&gt;
|Sven Golly &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/moderators/handbook/handbook.html Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://moleski.net/newsgroups/landfield/ Netnews Moderators Handbook (1995; copied 2009)]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/moderators/ Usenet Moderators Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html Usenet Related FAQs]&lt;br /&gt;
|Kent Landfield &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.swcp.com/~dmckeon/mod-faq.html Moderated Newsgroups FAQ]&lt;br /&gt;
|Denis McKeon &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.rossde.com/PGP/index.html Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)]&lt;br /&gt;
|David Ross &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.mccune.cc/PGP.htm Tom McCune&#039;s page for Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
|Tom McCune&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Moderation Software===&lt;br /&gt;
{|{{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
!Moderation Software   &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://netwinsite.com/dfree/dmod.htm DMod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://albasani.net/huhu/overview.html Huhu] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.cis.hut.fi/kaip/marvin/ Marvin] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.moderation.org.uk/ modbot by }] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/gateway/ News::Gateway] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.lugoj.com/products.html PyModerator] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.robomod.net/ Robomod] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/ Stump] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Miscellaneous===&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Problems with moderated and unmoderated groups on nonstandard setups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Changing the Moderation Status of Existing Groups]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Moderation relays]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Moderation]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=News.groups&amp;diff=1610</id>
		<title>News.groups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=News.groups&amp;diff=1610"/>
		<updated>2010-12-11T18:20:25Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;This article was written as part of a description of news.groups.proposals.  A much more complete discussion and history is [[Big-8_Usenet_hierarchies#History_of_news.groups|in the group-history section]].&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
news.groups came into existence as net.news.group as a place to discuss proposals for new newsgroups.  Its purpose remained unchanged until the establishment of news.groups.proposals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There never was, is not now, and probably never will be a formal [[charters|charter]] for news.groups.  It is the lineal descendant of the process that created Usenet.  Although news.groups is not the mother of all newsgroups, it is the grandchild or great-grandchild and principle heir of the mother of all newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides meaning &amp;quot;a formal document on file with the [[ISC]], a [[charters|&amp;quot;charter&amp;quot;]] may also be thought of as the purpose or scope of a newsgroup.  In this sense, news.groups has a purpose and scope, and therefore it has a charter.&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is the relationship between news.groups and news.groups.proposals? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
news.groups.proposals handles a subset of the traditional discussion in news.groups -- the &amp;quot;formal&amp;quot; discussion process.  This begins when the RFD is posted in [[news.announce.newgroups]] and ends when the decision is made whether to create the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Does news.groups have a charter? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The one-line description of news.groups is: &#039;&#039;&#039; Discussions and lists of newsgroups.&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
* For a sense of how news.groups developed in the past, see [[Big-8_Usenet_hierarchies#History_of_news.groups|how the group came into being]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* For a general understanding of what a charter is, see [[Newsgroup_Creation_FAQ#What_is_a_charter.3F|&amp;quot;What is a charter?&amp;quot;]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== If proposals are discussed in news.groups.proposals, what is left for news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* news.groups will not be removed or moderated.  It is a group that has been in long existence and there are innumerable FAQ&#039;s that reference it by name.  It may continue to be used by those who do not have access to  news.groups.proposals or prefer to post to an unmoderated newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* As an unmoderated newsgroup, news.groups is, in a sense, whatever the users make of it.  Based on the developments in the news.group community, it is apparent that &amp;quot;discussions ... of newsgroups&amp;quot; may include:&lt;br /&gt;
** developing ideas that could become formal proposals for new groups or improved policies.&lt;br /&gt;
** discussing issues related to established groups.&lt;br /&gt;
** evaluating proposals, policies, and changes regarding the Big-8 newsgroup hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
** explaining how newsgroups work.&lt;br /&gt;
** examining the culture of Usenet and the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** offering advice on netiquette or providing strategies for dealing with problems in newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
** preserving and transmitting the history of Usenet and the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** maintaining contact with friends and colleagues.&lt;br /&gt;
** providing feedback on the management of the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** cultivating volunteers to help manage the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** pooling resources to solve technical problems.&lt;br /&gt;
** public communications with members of the Big-8 Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Any discussion that would be on-topic in the news.groups.* hierarchy is encouraged.&lt;br /&gt;
* We hope that participants in news.groups will abide by normal Usenet standards of conduct and to ignore articles intended to disrupt the group. The usual suspects are discouraged - spam, binaries, html, direct advertising, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=News.groups&amp;diff=1609</id>
		<title>News.groups</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=News.groups&amp;diff=1609"/>
		<updated>2010-12-11T18:19:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* If proposals are discussed in news.groups.proposals., what is left for news.groups? */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;This information is provided in the context of a description of news.groups.proposals.  A much more complete discussion and history is [[Big-8_Usenet_hierarchies#History_of_news.groups|in the group-history section]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
news.groups came into existence as net.news.group as a place to discuss proposals for new newsgroups.  Its purpose remained unchanged until the establishment of news.groups.proposals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There never was, is not now, and probably never will be a formal [[charters|charter]] for news.groups.  It is the lineal descendant of the process that created Usenet.  Although news.groups is not the mother of all newsgroups, it is the grandchild or great-grandchild and principle heir of the mother of all newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Besides meaning &amp;quot;a formal document on file with the [[ISC]], a [[charters|&amp;quot;charter&amp;quot;]] may also be thought of as the purpose or scope of a newsgroup.  In this sense, news.groups has a purpose and scope, and therefore it has a charter.&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__&lt;br /&gt;
=== What is the relationship between news.groups and news.groups.proposals? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
news.groups.proposals handles a subset of the traditional discussion in news.groups -- the &amp;quot;formal&amp;quot; discussion process.  This begins when the RFD is posted in [[news.announce.newgroups]] and ends when the decision is made whether to create the group.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Does news.groups have a charter? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* The one-line description of news.groups is: &#039;&#039;&#039; Discussions and lists of newsgroups.&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
* For a sense of how news.groups developed in the past, see [[Big-8_Usenet_hierarchies#History_of_news.groups|how the group came into being]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* For a general understanding of what a charter is, see [[Newsgroup_Creation_FAQ#What_is_a_charter.3F|&amp;quot;What is a charter?&amp;quot;]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== If proposals are discussed in news.groups.proposals, what is left for news.groups? ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* news.groups will not be removed or moderated.  It is a group that has been in long existence and there are innumerable FAQ&#039;s that reference it by name.  It may continue to be used by those who do not have access to  news.groups.proposals or prefer to post to an unmoderated newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* As an unmoderated newsgroup, news.groups is, in a sense, whatever the users make of it.  Based on the developments in the news.group community, it is apparent that &amp;quot;discussions ... of newsgroups&amp;quot; may include:&lt;br /&gt;
** developing ideas that could become formal proposals for new groups or improved policies.&lt;br /&gt;
** discussing issues related to established groups.&lt;br /&gt;
** evaluating proposals, policies, and changes regarding the Big-8 newsgroup hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
** explaining how newsgroups work.&lt;br /&gt;
** examining the culture of Usenet and the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** offering advice on netiquette or providing strategies for dealing with problems in newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
** preserving and transmitting the history of Usenet and the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** maintaining contact with friends and colleagues.&lt;br /&gt;
** providing feedback on the management of the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** cultivating volunteers to help manage the Big-8.&lt;br /&gt;
** pooling resources to solve technical problems.&lt;br /&gt;
** public communications with members of the Big-8 Board.&lt;br /&gt;
* Any discussion that would be on-topic in the news.groups.* hierarchy is encouraged.&lt;br /&gt;
* We hope that participants in news.groups will abide by normal Usenet standards of conduct and to ignore articles intended to disrupt the group. The usual suspects are discouraged - spam, binaries, html, direct advertising, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:FAQs]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Internet_Systems_Consortium&amp;diff=1607</id>
		<title>Internet Systems Consortium</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Internet_Systems_Consortium&amp;diff=1607"/>
		<updated>2010-10-10T04:13:42Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* The ISC Newsgroup Archives */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The [http://www.isc.org|Internet Systems Consortium (ISC)] is a non-profit corporation that supports &amp;quot;the infrastructure of the universal connected self-organizing Internet--and the autonomy of its participants--by developing and maintaining core production quality software, protocols, and operations.&amp;quot;  One of the services that the ISC donates to [[Usenet]] is set of ftp archives in which the [[Checkgroups|official (canonical) list of Big-8 groups]] is maintained along with the control messages that created the groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the control messages are the original charters (if any) of each newsgroup.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The ISC Newsgroup Archives ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Archived control messages from news.announce.newgroups &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/ ftp root directory for news.announce.newgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/CONFIG/active ISC CONFIG list of active newsgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/ ISC archive of control messages] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Checkgroups]]--the canonical list.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Group_Lists ftp version of Checkgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Archives of charters and RFDs for each hierarchy &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/ Top level directory.]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/comp comp.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/humanities humanities.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/misc misc.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/news news.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec rec.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/sci sci.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/soc soc.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/talk talk.*] &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Moments_in_Usenet_History&amp;diff=1590</id>
		<title>Great Moments in Usenet History</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Moments_in_Usenet_History&amp;diff=1590"/>
		<updated>2010-10-08T11:46:37Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;Note well: all claims listed here are subject to further review.  Caveat emptor!&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Corrections &amp;amp; amendments [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu most welcome.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See [http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html &amp;quot;20 Year Archive on Google Groups&amp;quot;] for other highlights.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Date&lt;br /&gt;
!Event&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1979&lt;br /&gt;
|Duke University graduate students Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Usenet invent a method of sharing news]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1980&lt;br /&gt;
|Usenet, Usenix, UUCP developed as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet &amp;quot;the poor man&#039;s ARPANET.&amp;quot;] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1981&lt;br /&gt;
|net.news split off from net.general to [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|discuss new newsgroups]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1982&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton] creates net.news.group. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1983&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton] creates net.announce, the [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source first moderated newsgroup]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1983&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf|Gene Spafford (Spaf)] organizes the [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/0015.html backbone]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1984&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/354c90539a5b0882?hl=en Is the death of the net coming in September?] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1984&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/0016.html Development of newspaths] improves moderation (B News 2.11). &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1986-87&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Great renaming|The Great Renaming]]: The Big Seven organized. Roots of the voting system planted. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1986&lt;br /&gt;
|net.news.group renamed [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|news.groups]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1987&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Alt|alt.* groups]] formed. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1987&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Guidelines|First Guidelines for Creation: Spafford, Horton, Adams, Woods, Fair as backbone admins]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1988&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Spaf] kills the [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/0015.html backbone (The Cabal)]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1989&lt;br /&gt;
|news.announce.newgroups created [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source (Greg Woods--&amp;gt;Eliot Lear--&amp;gt;tale, 1989-1991).] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1989&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.important/msg/d29c0831c57db9f3?hl=en April Fools Called Off]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1992&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.kibo.com/kibopost/happynet_94.html Kibo proposes HappyNet]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_That_Never_Ended The September That Never Ended]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|Formation of [http://groups.google.com/group/news.answers/msg/4dafe9592a7ccb1b?hl=en Usenet Volunteer Votetakers] (UVV) under [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/627812702471e035?hl=en Ron &amp;quot;Asbestos&amp;quot; Dippold]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df Spaf burns out, says good-bye]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|tale (David C. Lawrence) takes over Checkgroups from Spaf; Mark Moraes inherited other lists. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1995&lt;br /&gt;
|New humanities hierarchy [ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/humanities/humanities.misc created by a vote of 508:97]. The Big Seven becomes the Big Eight. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1996&lt;br /&gt;
|tale [http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=news.announce.newgroups&amp;amp;op=index creates the PGP key] used by news.announce.newgroups moderators (1996-04-10). &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1997&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_II Usenet II] proposed.  [http://www.usenet2.org/ Usenet II home page.] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1998&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.kibo.com/kibopost/happynet_98.html HappyNet] updated. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  2001&lt;br /&gt;
|Google&#039;s [http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html 20-year retrospective of Usenet History.] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  2001&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,44923,00.html Jim Ellis, RIP]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  Oct. 13, 2002&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/browse_frm/thread/b078df5a6af7e7c/9ec1d0de06a834b6?lnk=st&amp;amp;q=group%3Anews.announce.newgroups+insubject%3A%22Change+insubject%3Aof+insubject%3AModerators%22&amp;amp;rnum=1&amp;amp;hl=en#9ec1d0de06a834b6 Russ Allbery, Todd McComb, and piranha succeed tale]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  2005&lt;br /&gt;
|Old newsgroup creation system suspended.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/browse_frm/thread/8f54e0fdb1810193/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?lnk=st&amp;amp;q=&amp;amp;rnum=10&amp;amp;hl=en#81d5f8e28ddf9a52 Eleven people] tagged to work on a new system. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  March 2006&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big-8_Management_FAQ#Where_did_the_Board_come_from.3F|Big-8.org]] opens for business.  skirv preserves one-syllable tradition. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  Oct. 1, 2006&lt;br /&gt;
|Big-8 Management Board [[Nan:2006-09-30-big-8-transition|confirmed]] by previous n.a.n. moderators. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  Oct. 2, 2006&lt;br /&gt;
|Death of Usenet.  Film at 11. &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Moments_in_Usenet_History&amp;diff=1589</id>
		<title>Great Moments in Usenet History</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Moments_in_Usenet_History&amp;diff=1589"/>
		<updated>2010-10-08T11:43:14Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#039;&#039;Note well: all claims listed here are subject to further review.  Caveat emptor!&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Corrections &amp;amp; amendments [mailto:moleski@canisius.edu most welcome.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See [http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html &amp;quot;20 Year Archive on Google Groups&amp;quot;] for other highlights.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| {{Prettytable}}&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Date&lt;br /&gt;
!Event&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1979&lt;br /&gt;
|Duke University graduate students Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Usenet invent a method of sharing news]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1980&lt;br /&gt;
|Usenet, Usenix, UUCP developed as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet &amp;quot;the poor man&#039;s ARPANET.&amp;quot;] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1981&lt;br /&gt;
|net.news split off from net.general to [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|discuss new newsgroups]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1982&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton] creates net.news.group. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1983&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton] creates net.announce, the [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source first moderated newsgroup]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1983&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf|Gene Spafford (Spaf)] organizes the [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/0015.html backbone]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1984&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/354c90539a5b0882?hl=en Is the death of the net coming in September?] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1984&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/0016.html Development of newspaths] improves moderation (B News 2.11). &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1986-87&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Great renaming|The Great Renaming]]: The Big Seven organized. Roots of the voting system planted. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1986&lt;br /&gt;
|net.news.group renamed [[Big-8#History_of_news.groups|news.groups]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1987&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Alt|alt.* groups]] formed. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1987&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Guidelines|First Guidelines for Creation: Spafford, Horton, Adams, Woods, Fair as backbone admins]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1988&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Spaf] kills the [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/0015.html backbone (The Cabal)]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1989&lt;br /&gt;
|news.announce.newgroups created [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source (Greg Woods--&amp;gt;Eliot Lear--&amp;gt;tale [1991]).] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1989&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.important/msg/d29c0831c57db9f3?hl=en April Fools Called Off]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1992&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.kibo.com/kibopost/happynet_94.html Kibo proposes HappyNet]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_That_Never_Ended The September That Never Ended]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|Formation of [http://groups.google.com/group/news.answers/msg/4dafe9592a7ccb1b?hl=en Usenet Volunteer Votetakers] (UVV) under [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/627812702471e035?hl=en Ron &amp;quot;Asbestos&amp;quot; Dippold]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df Spaf burns out, says good-bye]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1993&lt;br /&gt;
|tale (David C. Lawrence) takes over Checkgroups from Spaf; Mark Moraes inherited other lists. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1995&lt;br /&gt;
|New humanities hierarchy [ftp://ftp.isc.org/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/humanities/humanities.misc created by a vote of 508:97]. The Big Seven becomes the Big Eight. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1996&lt;br /&gt;
|tale [http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=news.announce.newgroups&amp;amp;op=index creates the PGP key] used by news.announce.newgroups moderators (1996-04-10). &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1997&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_II Usenet II] proposed.  [http://www.usenet2.org/ Usenet II home page.] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  1998&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.kibo.com/kibopost/happynet_98.html HappyNet] updated. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  2001&lt;br /&gt;
|Google&#039;s [http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html 20-year retrospective of Usenet History.] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  2001&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,44923,00.html Jim Ellis, RIP]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  Oct. 13, 2002&lt;br /&gt;
|[http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/browse_frm/thread/b078df5a6af7e7c/9ec1d0de06a834b6?lnk=st&amp;amp;q=group%3Anews.announce.newgroups+insubject%3A%22Change+insubject%3Aof+insubject%3AModerators%22&amp;amp;rnum=1&amp;amp;hl=en#9ec1d0de06a834b6 Russ Allbery, Todd McComb, and piranha succeed tale]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  2005&lt;br /&gt;
|Old newsgroup creation system suspended.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.announce.newgroups/browse_frm/thread/8f54e0fdb1810193/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?lnk=st&amp;amp;q=&amp;amp;rnum=10&amp;amp;hl=en#81d5f8e28ddf9a52 Eleven people] tagged to work on a new system. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  March 2006&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big-8_Management_FAQ#Where_did_the_Board_come_from.3F|Big-8.org]] opens for business.  skirv preserves one-syllable tradition. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  Oct. 1, 2006&lt;br /&gt;
|Big-8 Management Board [[Nan:2006-09-30-big-8-transition|confirmed]] by previous n.a.n. moderators. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  Oct. 2, 2006&lt;br /&gt;
|Death of Usenet.  Film at 11. &lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moleski&amp;diff=1588</id>
		<title>User talk:Moleski</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moleski&amp;diff=1588"/>
		<updated>2010-10-07T22:26:10Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;First edit: --[[User:Moleski|Moleski]] 17:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&#039;&#039;&#039;MediaWiki has been successfully installed.&#039;&#039;&#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to clean up interwiki links.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1585</id>
		<title>How the Management of the Big-8 Developed</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1585"/>
		<updated>2010-10-04T23:12:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* Introduction: What the Board does */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction: What the Board does ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board oversees eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|managed hierarchies] in [[wp&amp;gt;Usenet|Usenet]]:&lt;br /&gt;
* comp.*&lt;br /&gt;
* humanities.*&lt;br /&gt;
* misc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* news.*&lt;br /&gt;
* rec.*&lt;br /&gt;
* sci.*&lt;br /&gt;
* soc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* talk.*&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are known as the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29 &amp;quot;Big-8 hierarchies.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_hierarchy alt.*]  In the Big-8, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup newsgroups] are added, removed, or modified by the action of the Big-8 Management Board.  In unmanaged hierarchies, the control messages to perform these functions may be sent by any user.[http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The idea of the big-8 was that it&#039;s a stable &amp;quot;core&amp;quot; of Usenet; a set of groups that are widely agreed upon to exist, that can be expected to reach (almost) everyone.  That&#039;s why it requires management, to ensure that it remains stable and suitable for most Usenet sites.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/39ab0e96ed0530e8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board aims to:&lt;br /&gt;
* create well-named, well-used newsgroups in the [[Big-8 Usenet hierarchies]];&lt;br /&gt;
* make necessary adjustments to existing groups;&lt;br /&gt;
* remove groups that are not well-used; and&lt;br /&gt;
* assist and encourage the support of a [[Checkgroups|canonical newsgroup list]] by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Development of hierarchy management in the Big-8 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of this article is to trace the development--evolution?--of the tools that allow the orderly creation, removal, or modification of newsgroups in the Big-8:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Checkgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a canonical list of newsgroups in the eight hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Creation Guidelines&#039;&#039;&#039;: a standardized approach to discussing and creating newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;news.announce.newgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a moderated newsgroup for publication of official lists and other items related to hierarchy management.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) key&#039;&#039;&#039;: a signature that is used to authenticate control messages and Checkgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== In the beginning was chaos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Development of Checkgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first steps towards hierarchy management--producing reliable&lt;br /&gt;
lists of available newsgroups--were taken in 1980; lists of newsgroups were embedded in the code for A News.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
In May of 1981, [[wp&amp;gt;Mark_Horton|Mark Horton]] reported that he had &amp;quot;renamed all the arpanet newsgroups from NET.whatever to fa.whatever.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en|*] &lt;br /&gt;
In December, he mentioned that he was starting to collect a list of &amp;quot;officially blessed&amp;quot; newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/d2b6aa3230d40655?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  Horton created net.news.group in January of 1982&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;for discussions about proposed new newsgroups.&amp;quot;[http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt|*] That same month, Curt Stephens began to publish a &lt;br /&gt;
list of newsgroups in the new group.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
By the end of 1982, Adam Buchsbaum was producing a &amp;quot;List of Active&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en|*]  [[wp&amp;gt;Spaf|Gene Spafford (spaf)]] took over updating and posting that list in 1984, and soon added Checkgroups postings.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en|*]  In 1993,&lt;br /&gt;
spaf retired,[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df|*] and David C. Lawrence (tale) took over the task of publishing&lt;br /&gt;
the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of Guidelines for Group Creation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the early days of Usenet, there was no control over the creation of new newsgroups. Anyone could issue the necessary control messages to create a new group, as is still the case in unmanaged hierarchies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From: cbosgd!mark (cbosgd!mark)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.news.group&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: 1982-05-31 21:52:27 PST&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.cbosgd.2329]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current official policy on creation new newsgroups is that someone is supposed to propose it in net.general,net.news.group (substitute whatever for net if it&#039;s a local group, or set up your own procedure) and all followups are supposed to go to net.news.group only.  (The followup command in all recent versions of news does this automatically.)  Once a consensus is reached, the person who originally proposed it should make a yes/no decision on the newsgroup and a name, announce it to net.general, and create it.  (If he is not the netnews contact at his site, he should ask that person to create it, or ask me.)[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.azure.1484]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.general&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: curts@sri-unix&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Sat Nov 20 10:30:44 1982&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: grouplist&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A new newsgroup may be created by simply posting material to the net under a new newsgroup name. However, THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED! There are limits to the number of newsgroups that can be supported by the net. If you wish to send material to the net, first try to find an established newsgroup that deals with a subject related to that material. If there is no appropriate newsgroup, suggest the creation of a new group via net.news.group. Usually, there will be enough feedback to establish whether there is an audience for the subject that you would like to discuss.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On October 31, 1987, spaf circulated the first Guidelines on &amp;quot;How to Create a New Newsgroup.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6f9c349dd48ceb9c?hl=en|*] Although the document prescribed a routine for developing a proposal and issuing a call for votes, it had no strict mechanism for the subsequent creation of the group: &amp;quot;You can issue the control message yourself, but many sites will ignore the group unless the control message originates from one of the known backbone admins.&amp;quot;  These five [[wp&amp;gt;Backbone_cabal|backbone administrators]] were Gene Spafford, Mark Horton, Rick Adams, Greg Woods, and Erik Fair.[http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The practice of voting on newsgroup proposals continued from 1987 until 2005.  The last edition of the Guidelines for Big-8 Newsgroup Creation under the old system were published in August of that year.[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of news.groups and news.announce.newgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1987, net.news.group became news.groups.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en|*] The new group inherited the task of the old group: to discuss newsgroup proposals and provide lists of active newsgroups. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On August 8, 1989, news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) was created with Greg Woods as the initial moderator of the group: &amp;quot;The moderated group will contain ONLY new group proposals, calls for votes, and results of votes, and periodic postings of the newsgroup creation guidelines. Proposals for changes to the newsgroup creation procedure will also be considered, again with the discussion and inevitable flame wars taking place only in news.groups, provided that these proposals do not become too numerous (bearing in mind that the major goal of this new group is to keep the volume low).&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en|*]  In January 1990, [[wp&amp;gt;Eliot_Lear|Eliot Lear]] took over, at first as backup moderator for Woods.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source|*]  He shepherded the system through its early turbulence and then chose David C. Lawrence (tale) as his successor in February 1991.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subsequent news.announce.newgroups moderators ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under tale, all of the ingredients for hierarchy management were consolidated.  As moderator of n.a.n, he oversaw the creation and removal of newsgroups.  After 1993, he also took over the job of issuing Checkgroups so that news administrators could have a reliable list of active newsgroups.  In 1996, tale began authenticating his posts by using a [[wp&amp;gt;Pretty_Good_Privacy|PGP key]] to counteract a [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6ffb3913cd42541a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|flood of bogus control messages] that had been sent out under his name.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en|*]  As a general rule, most news administrators ceased to honor control messages in the Big-8 hierarchy that were not authenticated by tale&#039;s PGP key.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Russ Allbery began to help tale with hierarchy management in 1997.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c2b269e4957365d0?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
In 2002, Allbery succeeded tale as the lead moderator for news.announce.newgroups with piranha and Todd McComb as fellow n.a.n. moderators.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en|*] In 2004, Brian Edmonds joined the moderation team.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1987, most newsgroup decisions had been made by the system of voting developed under spaf&#039;s guidance.  In 2005, the voting system came under attack, and the news.announce.newgroups moderators announced a moratorium on accepting RFDs and asked for new ideas about how to manage the Big-8.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
Those discussions led in turn to the formation of an interim group[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en|*] that eventually became the Big-8 Management Board, the successor to the n.a.n. moderation team of Allbery, piranha, McComb, and Edmonds.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
Allbery, Russ.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b8c16deca63b6bfc?hl=en &amp;quot;ADMINISTRIVIA: New members of group-advice&amp;quot;] (2001-03-04).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: Change of Moderators&amp;quot;] (2002-10-13).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en   &amp;quot;Big Eight hierarchy management transition&amp;quot;] (2006-09-30).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html   &amp;quot;The Big Eight Newsgroup Creation Process 1.11&amp;quot;] (2005-08-25).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html   &amp;quot;Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ 1.8&amp;quot;] (2006-08-12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bernstein, Joe.  [http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt   &amp;quot;History of the guidelines for newsgroup creation in the Big Seven and Big Eight hierarchies 0.35&amp;quot;] (2001-11-02).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt   &amp;quot;1981-1982 creation.txt&amp;quot;] (2003-11-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Early lists of newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2002-01-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buchsbaum, Adam.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Active Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-12-05).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edmonds, Brian.  [http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html   &amp;quot;How To Write a Good Newgroup Message 1.19&amp;quot;] (2003-07-23).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guntner, David.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Authenticated newgroup/rmgroup messages&amp;quot;] (1996-05-22).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hauben, Michael and Rhonda.  [http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Horton, Mark.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en   &amp;quot;net.news.group is being renamed news.groups&amp;quot;] (1986-11-07).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en   &amp;quot;network name change is in effect&amp;quot;] (1981-05-12). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en   &amp;quot;official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-06-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Internet Systems Consortium]] (ISC).  [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Group_Lists/2006915  Sample &amp;quot;List of Big Eight Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2006-09-15).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jones, Bruce. [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/index.html usenet.hist mailing list archive].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
McComb, Todd.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: New Team Member&amp;quot;] (2004-07-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board&amp;quot;] (2005-10-31).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en   &amp;quot;Welcome to new Board members&amp;quot;] (2005-11-21).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Spafford, Gene.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Bad addresses &amp;amp; control messages&amp;quot;]--first Checkgroups (1984-10-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Moderators&amp;quot;] (1991-05-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stephens, Curt.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-01-26).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-11-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Supernews.  [http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html   &amp;quot;Composing and Posting a Control (newgroup) Message&amp;quot;] (2006).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Woods, Greg.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en   &amp;quot;news.announce.newgroups is up&amp;quot;] (1989-08-08).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Related Wikipedia articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.%2A_hierarchy alt.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_News A news]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbone_cabal Backbone cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) Big-8 hierarchies]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_News B News]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28advocate%29 John Gilmore (founded alt.* with Brian Reid)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newsgroups List of Newsgroups]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_News_Transfer_Protocol  Network News Transfer Protocol]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups newsgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_client news client]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_clients news clients (news readers)--list]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOV_%28computers%29 News Overview (NOV)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server news server (with list of news server software)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming The Great Renaming]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid Brian Reid (founded alt.* with John Gilmore)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Gene Spafford (spaf)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September The September That Never Ended]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal tinc: There is no cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Usenet]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uucp UUCP]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet_people Usenet people]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Specific hierarchies ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp.%2A_hierarchy comp.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci.%2A_hierarchy sci.*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1584</id>
		<title>How the Management of the Big-8 Developed</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=How_the_Management_of_the_Big-8_Developed&amp;diff=1584"/>
		<updated>2010-10-04T23:11:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: /* Introduction: What the Board does */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Introduction: What the Board does ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board oversees eight [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html|managed hierarchies] in [[wp&amp;gt;Usenet|Usenet]]:&lt;br /&gt;
* comp.*&lt;br /&gt;
* humanities.*&lt;br /&gt;
* misc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* news.*&lt;br /&gt;
* rec.*&lt;br /&gt;
* sci.*&lt;br /&gt;
* soc.*&lt;br /&gt;
* talk.*&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These are known as the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29 &amp;quot;Big-8 hierarchies.&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of management distinguishes these eight subsets of Usenet from unmanaged hierarchies such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_hierarchy alt.*]  In the Big-8, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup newsgroups] are added, removed, or modified by the action of the Big-8 Management Board.  In unmanaged hierarchies, the control messages to perform these functions may be sent by any user.[http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The idea of the big-8 was that it&#039;s a stable &amp;quot;core&amp;quot; of Usenet; a set of groups that are widely agreed upon to exist, that can be expected to reach (almost) everyone.  That&#039;s why it requires management, to ensure that it remains stable and suitable for most Usenet sites.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/39ab0e96ed0530e8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board aims to:&lt;br /&gt;
* create well-named, well-used newsgroups in the [[Big-8 Usenet hierarchies]];&lt;br /&gt;
* make necessary adjustments to existing groups;&lt;br /&gt;
* remove groups that are not well-used; and&lt;br /&gt;
* assist and encourage the support of a [[Checkgroups canonical newsgroup list]] by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Development of hierarchy management in the Big-8 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The purpose of this article is to trace the development--evolution?--of the tools that allow the orderly creation, removal, or modification of newsgroups in the Big-8:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Checkgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a canonical list of newsgroups in the eight hierarchies.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Creation Guidelines&#039;&#039;&#039;: a standardized approach to discussing and creating newsgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;news.announce.newgroups&#039;&#039;&#039;: a moderated newsgroup for publication of official lists and other items related to hierarchy management.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* &#039;&#039;&#039;Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) key&#039;&#039;&#039;: a signature that is used to authenticate control messages and Checkgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== In the beginning was chaos ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== The Development of Checkgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first steps towards hierarchy management--producing reliable&lt;br /&gt;
lists of available newsgroups--were taken in 1980; lists of newsgroups were embedded in the code for A News.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
In May of 1981, [[wp&amp;gt;Mark_Horton|Mark Horton]] reported that he had &amp;quot;renamed all the arpanet newsgroups from NET.whatever to fa.whatever.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en|*] &lt;br /&gt;
In December, he mentioned that he was starting to collect a list of &amp;quot;officially blessed&amp;quot; newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/d2b6aa3230d40655?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  Horton created net.news.group in January of 1982&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;for discussions about proposed new newsgroups.&amp;quot;[http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt|*] That same month, Curt Stephens began to publish a &lt;br /&gt;
list of newsgroups in the new group.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
By the end of 1982, Adam Buchsbaum was producing a &amp;quot;List of Active&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en|*]  [[wp&amp;gt;Spaf|Gene Spafford (spaf)]] took over updating and posting that list in 1984, and soon added Checkgroups postings.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en|*]  In 1993,&lt;br /&gt;
spaf retired,[http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/63926ede407972df|*] and David C. Lawrence (tale) took over the task of publishing&lt;br /&gt;
the lists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of Guidelines for Group Creation ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the early days of Usenet, there was no control over the creation of new newsgroups. Anyone could issue the necessary control messages to create a new group, as is still the case in unmanaged hierarchies:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From: cbosgd!mark (cbosgd!mark)&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.news.group&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: 1982-05-31 21:52:27 PST&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.cbosgd.2329]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current official policy on creation new newsgroups is that someone is supposed to propose it in net.general,net.news.group (substitute whatever for net if it&#039;s a local group, or set up your own procedure) and all followups are supposed to go to net.news.group only.  (The followup command in all recent versions of news does this automatically.)  Once a consensus is reached, the person who originally proposed it should make a yes/no decision on the newsgroup and a name, announce it to net.general, and create it.  (If he is not the netnews contact at his site, he should ask that person to create it, or ask me.)[http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: [bnews.azure.1484]&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: net.general&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: curts@sri-unix&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Sat Nov 20 10:30:44 1982&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: grouplist&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A new newsgroup may be created by simply posting material to the net under a new newsgroup name. However, THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED! There are limits to the number of newsgroups that can be supported by the net. If you wish to send material to the net, first try to find an established newsgroup that deals with a subject related to that material. If there is no appropriate newsgroup, suggest the creation of a new group via net.news.group. Usually, there will be enough feedback to establish whether there is an audience for the subject that you would like to discuss.[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On October 31, 1987, spaf circulated the first Guidelines on &amp;quot;How to Create a New Newsgroup.&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6f9c349dd48ceb9c?hl=en|*] Although the document prescribed a routine for developing a proposal and issuing a call for votes, it had no strict mechanism for the subsequent creation of the group: &amp;quot;You can issue the control message yourself, but many sites will ignore the group unless the control message originates from one of the known backbone admins.&amp;quot;  These five [[wp&amp;gt;Backbone_cabal|backbone administrators]] were Gene Spafford, Mark Horton, Rick Adams, Greg Woods, and Erik Fair.[http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The practice of voting on newsgroup proposals continued from 1987 until 2005.  The last edition of the Guidelines for Big-8 Newsgroup Creation under the old system were published in August of that year.[http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Development of news.groups and news.announce.newgroups ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1987, net.news.group became news.groups.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en|*] The new group inherited the task of the old group: to discuss newsgroup proposals and provide lists of active newsgroups. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On August 8, 1989, news.announce.newgroups (n.a.n.) was created with Greg Woods as the initial moderator of the group: &amp;quot;The moderated group will contain ONLY new group proposals, calls for votes, and results of votes, and periodic postings of the newsgroup creation guidelines. Proposals for changes to the newsgroup creation procedure will also be considered, again with the discussion and inevitable flame wars taking place only in news.groups, provided that these proposals do not become too numerous (bearing in mind that the major goal of this new group is to keep the volume low).&amp;quot;[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en|*]  In January 1990, [[wp&amp;gt;Eliot_Lear|Eliot Lear]] took over, at first as backup moderator for Woods.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/758b2dd9c67f8fab?dmode=source|*]  He shepherded the system through its early turbulence and then chose David C. Lawrence (tale) as his successor in February 1991.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Subsequent news.announce.newgroups moderators ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under tale, all of the ingredients for hierarchy management were consolidated.  As moderator of n.a.n, he oversaw the creation and removal of newsgroups.  After 1993, he also took over the job of issuing Checkgroups so that news administrators could have a reliable list of active newsgroups.  In 1996, tale began authenticating his posts by using a [[wp&amp;gt;Pretty_Good_Privacy|PGP key]] to counteract a [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/6ffb3913cd42541a?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|flood of bogus control messages] that had been sent out under his name.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en|*]  As a general rule, most news administrators ceased to honor control messages in the Big-8 hierarchy that were not authenticated by tale&#039;s PGP key.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Russ Allbery began to help tale with hierarchy management in 1997.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c2b269e4957365d0?dmode=source&amp;amp;hl=en|*]  &lt;br /&gt;
In 2002, Allbery succeeded tale as the lead moderator for news.announce.newgroups with piranha and Todd McComb as fellow n.a.n. moderators.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en|*] In 2004, Brian Edmonds joined the moderation team.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1987, most newsgroup decisions had been made by the system of voting developed under spaf&#039;s guidance.  In 2005, the voting system came under attack, and the news.announce.newgroups moderators announced a moratorium on accepting RFDs and asked for new ideas about how to manage the Big-8.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
Those discussions led in turn to the formation of an interim group[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en|*] that eventually became the Big-8 Management Board, the successor to the n.a.n. moderation team of Allbery, piranha, McComb, and Edmonds.[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en|*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
Allbery, Russ.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b8c16deca63b6bfc?hl=en &amp;quot;ADMINISTRIVIA: New members of group-advice&amp;quot;] (2001-03-04).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9ec1d0de06a834b6?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: Change of Moderators&amp;quot;] (2002-10-13).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/b9a5ee8f65691199?hl=en   &amp;quot;Big Eight hierarchy management transition&amp;quot;] (2006-09-30).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/big-eight.html   &amp;quot;The Big Eight Newsgroup Creation Process 1.11&amp;quot;] (2005-08-25).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/usenet-hier.html   &amp;quot;Usenet Hierarchy Administration FAQ 1.8&amp;quot;] (2006-08-12).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bernstein, Joe.  [http://www.panix.com/%7Ejosephb/newsgroups/history/guidelines/revisions.txt   &amp;quot;History of the guidelines for newsgroup creation in the Big Seven and Big Eight hierarchies 0.35&amp;quot;] (2001-11-02).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://www.panix.com/~josephb/newsgroups/history/1981-82creation.txt   &amp;quot;1981-1982 creation.txt&amp;quot;] (2003-11-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/f7fd60df8d54e29b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Early lists of newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2002-01-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buchsbaum, Adam.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/2b846d915045e150?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Active Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-12-05).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edmonds, Brian.  [http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html   &amp;quot;How To Write a Good Newgroup Message 1.19&amp;quot;] (2003-07-23).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Guntner, David.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/c7a9e8e0f9e3aa6b?hl=en   &amp;quot;Authenticated newgroup/rmgroup messages&amp;quot;] (1996-05-22).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hauben, Michael and Rhonda.  [http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Horton, Mark.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/788649ca05fb43b?hl=en   &amp;quot;net.news.group is being renamed news.groups&amp;quot;] (1986-11-07).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/466ba2a40e9db289?hl=en   &amp;quot;network name change is in effect&amp;quot;] (1981-05-12). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6b365efc6aded64d?hl=en   &amp;quot;official policy on creation of new newsgroups&amp;quot;] (1982-06-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Internet Systems Consortium]] (ISC).  [ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/Group_Lists/2006915  Sample &amp;quot;List of Big Eight Newsgroups&amp;quot;] (2006-09-15).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jones, Bruce. [http://communication.ucsd.edu/bjones/Usenet.Hist/Nethist/index.html usenet.hist mailing list archive].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
McComb, Todd.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/9df1b13601042567?hl=en   &amp;quot;ANNOUNCEMENT: New Team Member&amp;quot;] (2004-07-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e805af5ccc1d7ac8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Call for Volunteers: Advisory Board&amp;quot;] (2005-10-31).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
[http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/81d5f8e28ddf9a52?hl=en   &amp;quot;Welcome to new Board members&amp;quot;] (2005-11-21).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Spafford, Gene.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news/msg/f14b2b2d5db1e8b8?hl=en   &amp;quot;Bad addresses &amp;amp; control messages&amp;quot;]--first Checkgroups (1984-10-01).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/da887dc7ac81aa4b?hl=en   &amp;quot;List of Moderators&amp;quot;] (1991-05-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Stephens, Curt.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.news.group/msg/6670dd61c41a8982?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-01-26).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;------&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt;.  [http://groups.google.com/group/net.general/msg/a883727effe724db?hl=en   &amp;quot;grouplist&amp;quot;] (1982-11-20).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Supernews.  [http://www.supernews.com/support/controlmessage.html   &amp;quot;Composing and Posting a Control (newgroup) Message&amp;quot;] (2006).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Woods, Greg.  [http://groups.google.com/group/news.groups/msg/e464008f22c5d615?hl=en   &amp;quot;news.announce.newgroups is up&amp;quot;] (1989-08-08).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Related Wikipedia articles ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.%2A_hierarchy alt.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_News A news]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbone_cabal Backbone cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) Big-8 hierarchies]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_News B News]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28advocate%29 John Gilmore (founded alt.* with Brian Reid)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Horton Mark Horton]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newsgroups List of Newsgroups]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_News_Transfer_Protocol  Network News Transfer Protocol]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups newsgroups] &lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_client news client]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_news_clients news clients (news readers)--list]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOV_%28computers%29 News Overview (NOV)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server news server (with list of news server software)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy Pretty Good Privacy]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming The Great Renaming]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Reid Brian Reid (founded alt.* with John Gilmore)]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaf Gene Spafford (spaf)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September The September That Never Ended]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal tinc: There is no cabal]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Usenet]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uucp UUCP]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Usenet_people Usenet people]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_server Usenet sites]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Specific hierarchies ===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp.%2A_hierarchy comp.*]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci.%2A_hierarchy sci.*]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Big-8 Management]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Alt_hierarchy&amp;diff=1583</id>
		<title>Alt hierarchy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Alt_hierarchy&amp;diff=1583"/>
		<updated>2010-10-04T23:02:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: Redirected page to Other hierarchies&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;#REDIRECT [[Other hierarchies]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2010-09-30-board-membership&amp;diff=1560</id>
		<title>Nan:2010-09-30-board-membership</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2010-09-30-board-membership&amp;diff=1560"/>
		<updated>2010-10-02T15:02:23Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: Big-8 Management Board &amp;lt;board@big-8.org&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Big-8 Management Board - Current Membership &amp;amp; Composition&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:09:17 EDT&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;i82t6r$ou2$1@news.albasani.net&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an official communication from the Big-8 Management Board.&lt;br /&gt;
Please note that Followup-to is set to news.groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following will be retained as board members for an additional 18&lt;br /&gt;
month term which will begin 1 October 2010 and expire on 1 April 2012:&lt;br /&gt;
    &lt;br /&gt;
  Alexander Bartolich&lt;br /&gt;
  Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
  Dave Sill&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Additionally, while Marty Moleski is remaining on the board, he has re-&lt;br /&gt;
signed as chairman, effective 1 October. The board is very grateful and&lt;br /&gt;
deeply indebted to Marty for his cheerful, painstaking, and generous&lt;br /&gt;
service as co-chair since the spring of 2008. He was member of the Pre-&lt;br /&gt;
liminary Board formed in November 2005, and greatly contributed to the&lt;br /&gt;
policies of the B8MB.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Current membership of the board is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  Term Expires 1 April 2011&lt;br /&gt;
    Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
    Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
    David E. Ross&lt;br /&gt;
    Paul Schleck&lt;br /&gt;
  Term Expires 1 Oct 2011&lt;br /&gt;
    Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
    Marty Moleski&lt;br /&gt;
    Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
  Term Expires 1 April 2012&lt;br /&gt;
    Alexander Bartolich, Chair&lt;br /&gt;
    Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
    Dave Sill, Vice-Chair&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Board announcements]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2010-03-26-admin&amp;diff=1559</id>
		<title>Nan:2010-03-26-admin</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2010-03-26-admin&amp;diff=1559"/>
		<updated>2010-10-02T15:02:07Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: Big-8 Management Board &amp;lt;board@big-8.org&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Big-8 Management Board - Current Membership &amp;amp; Composition&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 02:01:08 EDT&lt;br /&gt;
Lines: 33&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;hvadnVLpZdjPoDHWnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@supernews.com&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an official communication from the Big-8 Management &lt;br /&gt;
Board. Please note that Followup-to is set to news.groups.proposals.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following will be retained as board members for an additional 18 &lt;br /&gt;
month term which will begin 1 April 2010 and expire on 1 October 2011:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
Marty Moleski&lt;br /&gt;
Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alexander Bartolich has been elected to act as co-chair to &lt;br /&gt;
replace Kathy Morgan.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The board is very grateful and deeply indebted to Kathy for her &lt;br /&gt;
cheerful, painstaking, and generous service as co-chair since the &lt;br /&gt;
spring of 2008.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The current membership of the board is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Alexander Bartolich, co-chair&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
Marty Moleski, co-chair&lt;br /&gt;
Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
David E. Ross&lt;br /&gt;
Paul Schleck&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Sill&lt;br /&gt;
Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--&lt;br /&gt;
Alexander Bartolich &amp;amp; Martin Moleski, co-chairs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Board announcements]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2009-09-30-board-membership&amp;diff=1558</id>
		<title>Nan:2009-09-30-board-membership</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2009-09-30-board-membership&amp;diff=1558"/>
		<updated>2010-10-02T15:01:48Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: Big-8 Management Board &amp;lt;board@big-8.org&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: Board election results--October 1, 2009&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:50:05 EDT&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;dIOdnTlocqMu5l7XnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@supernews.com&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following members were re-elected to the Board:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
- Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
- Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following were newly elected to the Board:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Alexander Bartolich&lt;br /&gt;
- David E. Ross&lt;br /&gt;
- Paul Schleck&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The entire membership, therefore, is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
- Kathy Morgan, co-chair&lt;br /&gt;
- Martin Moleski, co-chair&lt;br /&gt;
- Dave Sill, vice-chair&lt;br /&gt;
- Alexander Bartolich&lt;br /&gt;
- David E. Ross&lt;br /&gt;
- Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
- Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
- Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
- Paul Schleck&lt;br /&gt;
- Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Board announcements]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2009-04-07-board-membership&amp;diff=1557</id>
		<title>Nan:2009-04-07-board-membership</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2009-04-07-board-membership&amp;diff=1557"/>
		<updated>2010-10-02T15:01:31Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: Big-8 Management Board &amp;lt;board@big-8.org&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: [ADMIN] Big-8 Management Board - Current Membership&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:19:34 EDT&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;I4ednRQzrIqBrkbUnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@supernews.com&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the end of March, Helge Nareid and Dave Sill&lt;br /&gt;
were re-elected to the board.  Dave Sill stood&lt;br /&gt;
for re-election early in order to balance the&lt;br /&gt;
handover dates.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Term Expires 1 October 2009:&lt;br /&gt;
* Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
* Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
* Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Term Expires 1 April 2010:&lt;br /&gt;
* Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
* Marty Moleski&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Term Expires 1 October 2010:&lt;br /&gt;
* Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
* Dave Sill&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
			Marty Moleski, SJ&lt;br /&gt;
			Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
			co-chairs&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Board announcements]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2008-10-23-announce&amp;diff=1556</id>
		<title>Nan:2008-10-23-announce</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2008-10-23-announce&amp;diff=1556"/>
		<updated>2010-10-02T15:01:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
From: board@lists.big-8.org (Big 8 Management Board)&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: ADMIN -- Board Membership, n.a.n publication policy&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:12:26 EDT&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;1ip9q3m.noms1s1pblnb6N%board@lists.big-8.org&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following is an official communication from the Big-8 Management&lt;br /&gt;
Board.  Please note that followups point at news.groups.proposals.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. BOARD MEMBERSHIP&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Three members have been re-elected to the board: Lee, Moleski, Sill.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Term Expires April 1, 2009:&lt;br /&gt;
--------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Mark Kramer&lt;br /&gt;
Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Term Expires Oct 1, 2009:&lt;br /&gt;
------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Term Expires Apr 1, 2010:&lt;br /&gt;
------------------------&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
Marty Moleski&lt;br /&gt;
Dave Sill&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. REVISION OF POLICY STATEMENT FOR n.a.n&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The board had been using this text on the wiki to give an&lt;br /&gt;
indication of what kinds of RFDs might not be published&lt;br /&gt;
in n.a.n:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=policies:discouraged&amp;amp;rev=12229&lt;br /&gt;
10680&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; Types of Proposals that are Discouraged&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; The Board reserves the right to reject any proposals that it deems&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; inconsistent with its mission. Such proposals include, but are not limited&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; to:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    1. Unmoderated groups primarily intended for binary content.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    2. Groups, primarily intended for binary content, outside *.binaries.*.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    3. Unmoderated groups that allow binary content, in addition to the text&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;       content to which they are primarily devoted.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    4. Groups that violate the naming requirements. *&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    5. Actions directly affecting groups outside the Big-8. *&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    6. Groups where posting on-topic would intrinsically be illegal in most&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;       places.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    7. Postings that are not meant as proposals.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    8. Proposals to remove an unmoderated group outside the scope of a&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;       hierarchy reorganization, unless the group is extremely low traffic.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;    9. Proposals to remove an actively moderated group without the consent&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt;       of the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; * - While we will not enact proposals for groups that violate the naming&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; requirements, particularly non-Big-8 groups, we will be happy to suggest&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;gt; acceptable names for groups submitted to us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That text has been replaced in its entirety by the following:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=policies:discouraged&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Reasons for Refusing to Publish Proposals in news.announce.newgroups&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Publication of an RFD in n.a.n suggests that the Board considers the&lt;br /&gt;
proposal to fall within the realm of possibility and/or to be worth&lt;br /&gt;
consideration in news.groups.proposals. It also implies that the Board&lt;br /&gt;
is willing to make a formal decision on the proposal if the proponents&lt;br /&gt;
follow through on the steps necessary to bring the proposal to a vote.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Board reserves the right to reject any proposals that it deems&lt;br /&gt;
inconsistent with its mission.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The following points indicate some of the grounds the Board might have&lt;br /&gt;
for refusing to publish proposals in n.a.n.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. The Board will not publish proposals for:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    * groups outside the Big-8 hierarchy;&lt;br /&gt;
    * groups in which on-topic postings would constitute criminal&lt;br /&gt;
        activity in most parts of the world;&lt;br /&gt;
    * unmoderated binary groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. The Board will not approve proposals for posting to&lt;br /&gt;
news.announce.newgroups that, in its judgment, are intended solely to&lt;br /&gt;
game the system or otherwise seem to be offered in bad faith. NOTE: the&lt;br /&gt;
Board reserves the right to include some or all of the content of such&lt;br /&gt;
proposals in a rejection notice published in news.announce.newgroups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. It is highly unlikely that the board would publish proposals for:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    * a properly named, moderated binary group under *.binaries;&lt;br /&gt;
    * removal of an active moderator or to removal of a moderated group&lt;br /&gt;
      without the consent of the moderator.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Board announcements]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2008-06-10-announce&amp;diff=1555</id>
		<title>Nan:2008-06-10-announce</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.big-8.org/w/index.php?title=Nan:2008-06-10-announce&amp;diff=1555"/>
		<updated>2010-10-02T15:00:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Moleski: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&amp;lt;pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals&lt;br /&gt;
Subject: [ADMIN] Big-8 Management Board - Current Membership &amp;amp; Composition&lt;br /&gt;
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:27:55 EDT&lt;br /&gt;
Message-ID: &amp;lt;7hvt44t41l2enq9ha65tk30snq8vi60ojl@astraweb.com&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[The following is an official communication from the Big-8 Management &lt;br /&gt;
Board.&lt;br /&gt;
 Please note that Followup-to is set to news.groups.proposals.]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Big-8 Management Board now consists of 8 members.  At the expiration &lt;br /&gt;
of his term on April 1st, Doug McLaren chose to step down from the board &lt;br /&gt;
and not run for re-election.  The other incumbents (Tim Skirvin, Kathy &lt;br /&gt;
Morgan, and Jeremy Nixon) whose terms expired April 1 did choose to run &lt;br /&gt;
for re-election and passed their votes, so they are being retained on the&lt;br /&gt;
 B8MB.  Current Board membership is:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  Term Expires Oct 1, 2008:&lt;br /&gt;
     Thomas Lee&lt;br /&gt;
     Marty Moleski&lt;br /&gt;
     Dave Sill&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  Term Expires April 1, 2009:&lt;br /&gt;
     Mark Kramer&lt;br /&gt;
     Helge Nareid&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
  Term Expires Oct 1, 2009:&lt;br /&gt;
      Kathy Morgan&lt;br /&gt;
     Jeremy Nixon&lt;br /&gt;
     Tim Skirvin&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Additionally, while Tim Skirvin is remaining on the Board, he has &lt;br /&gt;
resigned as Chairman due to the press of other business and lack of time &lt;br /&gt;
to continue as Chair.  Thank you, Tim, for your generous service as Chair&lt;br /&gt;
 and for all the other services you continue to provide to the B8MB.  &lt;br /&gt;
You&#039;ve shown a tremendous past and continuing commitment to improving and&lt;br /&gt;
 maintaining Usenet; we really appreciate your dedication and assistance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Martin Moleski and Kathy Morgan are now serving as Co-Chairs.  We&#039;ve a &lt;br /&gt;
lot to learn and some kinks to work out in the exchange of the reins, but&lt;br /&gt;
 we are working on it.  We apologize for the delays in posting the RESULT&lt;br /&gt;
 for comp.lang.c++.misc, sending the control messages, and publishing &lt;br /&gt;
this note.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- &lt;br /&gt;
Marty Moleski &amp;amp; Kathy Morgan, Co-Chairs &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/pre&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Board announcements]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Moleski</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>