From: Metatron <>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals,comp.compression
Subject: RFD: comp.compression.random
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:10:14 EDT
Message-ID: <>

                      REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
             unmoderated group comp.compression.random

This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated newsgroup comp.compression.random.

comp.compression.random	Random data compression algorithms and


In the past and actuality comp.compression has become extremly
due to an increasing amount of discussion related to random data
compression and or questions regarding patents about those.

The term "random data compression" refers to quite some group of
abilities a compressor may develop. I'm trying to clarify the term for
participating in the discussion while not being involved in or being
connected to data compression:
* able to compress (means make smaller) any string
* thus able to compress recursively (may make smaller it's own output)
* thus also able to compress "highly dense" data which isn't
  otherwise (like DNA) to extreme small sizes (human genome on a
  all linux distributions of all times on a single CD, ...)
Basically the entire topic revolves around doing wonderfull things
some digital data, so it turns out much much smaller. The common
approach to
reach that is mostly similar to developing mechanical perpetuum-mobile
machines. I don't want to stress any thoughts about the liability or
usability or correctness of the proposed claims and algorithms. There
a lot people thinking about it and I think ("right" or "wrong") they
their space to discuss their ideas, as the other compression-
deserve their space to discuss undisturbed.

Absolute numbers about the percentage of random compression related
posts are difficult to produce. Just looking at the last month we have
a coverage
of 75% related posts of all posts (~250 vs. ~60), which most probably
is not
representative over the entire year. But still I expect 25% of the
content to turn out to be related to random data compression.

The problem is visible for allready a very long time, even mentioned
in the
fiveteen years old comp.compression FAQ: "[this topic can] generate a
lot of
activity on comp.compression, which can last for several months."

Personally being in my tenth year of reading comp.compression feel
extremely distracted not only by the "abuse" of the general
group for a very specific and (without being disrespectfull) otherwise
irrelevant topic to the majority of general comp.compression inquiries
discussions. Moreover it affects the common acceptance and credibility
comp.compression as a whole, the topics and discussions exchanged and
people participating in it. It especially leads to automatic
protection and pre-justification mechanism of frequent poster in the
direction of new posters which just turn out to be friendly but miss-
understood basic concepts. In that sense we should try to seek to
tolerance and equilibrium for all participants, and that means IMHO
adding comp.compression.random.

The suffix .random is designed to perfectly capture the attention of
individuals in that specific area of research and the to be estimated
amount of posts-absorbtion into the new group will hopefully free
relevant discussion space in the original group. It also gives any
developed in comp.compression to side-step (Follow-Up) into
comp.compression.random when it becomes off-topic. Currently
everybody just has to bear it impassively.

In accordance with the guidelines for newgroup creation, discussion
about the creation of this newsgroup will take place in

I urge you to support this proposal which has the potential to
significantly assist data compression readers and those simply being
curious about compression around the world.


comp.compression.random is an unmoderated group for the discussion
of random data compression algorithms. The term random data
compression referrs to all kind of compression algorithms which
ought to compress either random data, or are able to compress any
data (at times recursively), or related data compression algorithms.
The group accepts discussions about patent protection for the
topic as well.


For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate
in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup.  This is both a courtesy to groups
in which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as
best method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to

To this end, the followup header of this RFD has been set to

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID (e.g.,
Barney Fife, <>).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.


This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:



Niels Fröhling <>


2009-06-09     1st RFD