Nan:2008-12-10-news.admin.peering-rfd2

From Big-8.org

From: "D. Stussy" <spam@bde-arc.ampr.org>
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals,news.groups,alt.usenet.peering,news.admin.misc
Subject: Second RFD:  "news.admin.peering"
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:38:47 EST
Message-ID: <ghnb2v$u0s$1@snarked.org>


                  [SECOND] REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                  unmoderated group news.admin.peering

This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated newsgroup news.admin.peering.



NEWSGROUPS LINE:

news.admin.peering Server peering requests, offers, & article flow
discussions.



RATIONALE:

In a discussion about itself, it was suggested that "alt.usenet.peering"
should have been created as "news.admin.peering" (or
"news.admin.connectivity") - a "big-8" group.  A few participants in that
discussion indicated that they would favor such.  Although it will probably
be a low volume group, it serves a critical infrastructure need to Usenet
as a whole.  It is expected that the majority of group participants will be
news server administrators and those wishing to start new servers.  The
general Usenet population is not expected to participate but may do so if
they wish.

HISTORY BEHIND RATIONALE:
Some time ago in 2007, it was noted that there was no "in band" (i.e. via
NNTP) way for a news server administrator to make general requests for
[additional] peering.  Thus, in December 2007, newsgroup
"alt.usenet.peering" was created.  It has had success and about 100 posts,
mainly peering requests and offers, and a couple of discussions regarding
organized peering arrangements (how to pick peers - from anarchy to
following a plan), and a discussion about itself.  As an "alt.*" group, it
didn't need a charter nor a vote, so rapid deployment occurred.
"Alt.usenet.peering" is an unmoderated group.

A survey of Usenet servers by "groupsearch.aacity.net" indicates that 18 of
the 49 servers it surveys (about 37%) carry "alt.usenet.peering" (3 servers
have no articles):


http://groupsearch.aacity.net/cgi-bin/prop.pl?action=search&group=alt.usenet.peering&sorting=group

Newzbot.com reports an additional 10 servers which carry the group.
Newzbot generally reports only newsservers "open" for reading and/or
posting.

  http://www.newzbot.com/search.php?t=group&q=alt.usenet.peering

It is also noted that some of the current participants in
"alt.usenet.peering" have posted articles sourcing from servers not in
either of the lists cited above.

Currently, there is also one "out of band" (HTTP - web site) way of
requesting peering that is viable.  A second web site exists but has
experienced constant abuse since about March 2008 thus rendering it
unusable.

Should "news.admin.peering" be created, users of "alt.usenet.peering" will
abandon it in deference to the new group.  Steps will be taken to suggest
its removal from the ISC listing of newsgroups.  Should the creation vote
fail, "alt.usenet.peering" will continue to fulfill the functions of the
proposed, failed group.



CHARTER:

News.admin.peering is an unmoderated group where news server administrators
may request or offer NNTP peering with other news servers.  Queries
regarding connectivity problems and server closing announcements are also
permitted.  Discussions on how to best pick peers (at random or via some
plan) is also on-topic.  Discussions regarding hierarchy propagation may be
permitted (open for discussion in the RFD).

Issues regarding spam or network abuse are better posted to the
"news.admin.net-abuse.*" groups.

Posters are expected to abide by normal Usenet standards of decorum, and to
ignore articles intended to disrupt the group.  The usual suspects are
prohibited (spam, binaries, direct advertising, etc.).



MODERATION POLICY:

None.  News.admin.peering is an unmoderated group.



PROCEDURE:

For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

  http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=policies:creation

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup.  This is both a courtesy to groups
in which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the
best method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to
news.groups.proposals

To this end, the followup header of this RFD has been set to
news.groups.proposals.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID (e.g.,
Barney Fife, <4JGdnb60fsMzHA7ZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@sysmatrix.net>).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.



DISTRIBUTION:

This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:

  news.announce.newgroups
  news.groups.proposals
  news.groups
  alt.usenet.peering
  news.admin.misc



PROPONENT:

D. Stussy, replies@newsgroups.kd6lvw.ampr.org



CHANGE HISTORY:

2008-12-02     1st RFD (informal)
2008-12-10     2nd RFD



COMMENT HISTORY (from 1st RFD):

The fact that an alt.* group had been created and has been successful, plus
comments made during the first round of discussions, indicate that some
have apprehension regarding the use of news.admin.misc for such a purpose.
Some in favor would like to see a specific peering group.  Some opposed
feel that such would be redundant to the .misc group.  Some don't believe
that alt.usenet.peering would be abandoned and/or removed (or even
removable).

Message IDs identified below are taken first from posts on
news.groups.proposals, then news.groups, then alt.usenet.peering, as
extracted from a threaded listing (NOT chronological) of the topic on
2008/12/10 (at about 02:45 UTC).  This will include side- and off-topic
posts under the thread.  One comment suggested that there were posts
regarding this topic on news.software.nntp; I have seen none there.



COMMENTERS GENERALLY IN FAVOR:  11
- D. Stussy, <replies@newsgroups.kd6lvw.ampr.org>
 <gh4f01$6t0$1@snarked.org> (1st RFD)
 <ghc6u0$d63$1@snarked.org>
 <ghc72t$d6e$1@snarked.org>
 <ghc7dh$d9a$1@snarked.org>
 <ghfqlr$nt8$1@snarked.org>
 <ghhopn$3ur$1@snarked.org>
 <ghn163$ti4$1@snarked.org>
 <ghn0k2$tge$1@snarked.org>
 <gh9djq$sin$1@snarked.org>
 <gh9g5j$so0$1@snarked.org>
 <ghc62e$d3h$3@snarked.org>
 <ghc6k6$d5g$1@snarked.org>
 <ghengh$kvj$1@snarked.org>
 <ghfo8g$nlr$1@snarked.org>
 <ghho37$3th$1@snarked.org>
 <ghn0pk$tgp$1@snarked.org>
 <ghn944$tui$1@snarked.org>
 <ghhndq$3pu$1@snarked.org>
 <ghhl25$3jg$1@snarked.org>
 <ghn0eg$tf9$1@snarked.org>
 <ghfqlr$nt8$1@snarked.org>
 <ghhopn$3ur$1@snarked.org>
 <ghn0k2$tge$1@snarked.org>
 <gg25hm$ikq$1@snarked.org> (pre-RFD)
 < ? > (2nd RFD - MID N/A until posted)
- Tim Skirvin, <skirv@big-8.org>
 <tskirvin.20081203001529$1d0f@vulture.killfile.org>
 <tskirvin.20081206173215$2ecb@vulture.killfile.org>
- Dr. Brian Leverich, <news@linkpendium.com>
 <slrngjbo5n.sdl.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com>
 <slrngjd82s.89c.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com>
 <slrngjomsb.3p3.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com>
 <slrngjqks5.73d.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com>
 <slrngjlht8.bk8.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com>
 <slrngibn25.u7p.leverich@askin-17.linkpendium.com> (pre-RFD)
- Martin X. Moleski, SJ, <moleski@canisius.edu>
 <4YGdnaD3J74gdajUnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@supernews.com> *
 <uY6dnZx9zNGtU6vUnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@supernews.com>
 <UvednYd5Q6KOIqDUnZ2dnUVZ_srinZ2d@supernews.com>
 <NJ-dnXodZNO8o6DUnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <IrmdnXJAIt9IvKHUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <1MmdneifcNLPOqHUnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <4qqdneclC5JToqDUnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@supernews.com>
 <xeOdnXrl37L8lKLUnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <IrmdnXNAIt9pgqHUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <36Gdnembb8fXwqXUnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <IrmdnXJAIt9IvKHUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <1MmdneifcNLPOqHUnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <xeOdnXrl37L8lKLUnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@supernews.com>
- Dave Sill, <dave@sill.org>
 <6po71kF96bp2U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6pqbi4F9ejg2U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6q4t1mFasspdU1@mid.individual.net>
 <wx0skpmglh7.fsf@sws5.ornl.gov> (pre-RFD)
- Michiel, <michiel@news4us.nl>
 <mn.1c6f7d8c8a4039fb.24136@news4us.nl>
 <mn.2b957d8c5c4e6590.24136@news4us.nl>
 <mn.2bb37d8c39200dbb.24136@news4us.nl>
- Matija Nalis, <mnalis+news@CARNet.hr>
 <slrngjdop1.3mc.mnalis-news@eagle102.home.lan>
 <slrngjkp0f.4a9.mnalis-news@eagle102.home.lan>
 <slrngjlgti.4vf.mnalis-news@eagle102.home.lan>
- William Kronert, <wkronert@sunstroke.sdsu.edu>
 <ghetmu$fvv$1@gondor.sdsu.edu>
 <ghf1e6$fvv$2@gondor.sdsu.edu>
 <ghf6s3$fvv$3@gondor.sdsu.edu>
 <ghk0rf$o1h$1@gondor.sdsu.edu>
 <ghit6b$9tj$1@gondor.sdsu.edu>
 <ghjjj3$jk5$1@gondor.sdsu.edu>
 <ghitlf$9tj$2@gondor.sdsu.edu>
- Christof Meerwald, <NOSPAM-seeMySig+up65+@usenet.cmeerw.org>
 <slrngjf3lb.akd.NOSPAM-seeMySig@msgid.cmeerw.org>
 <slrngiopnu.1f2.NOSPAM-seeMySig@msgid.cmeerw.org> (pre-RFD)
- Robert Joosten, <newsmaster@DELETE_THISerje.net>
  <gg0tvl$9g8$1@ziemel.erje.net> (Initial Suggestion)
- The Doctor, <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
 <gg13n3$59p$11@gallifrey.nk.ca> (pre-RFD)
 <ggi5fo$4e4$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> (pre-RFD)

* - For the concept, but indicated he would not use the group.


COMMENTERS GENERALLY OPPOSED:  6
- Mark Kramer, <c28f62@TheWorld.com>
 <gh9mie$o52$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <ghcirs$5sq$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <gh9mge$o25$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <gh71hs$chu$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <ghcjb2$6vk$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <ghn36c$jre$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <ghn30o$j9q$1@vulture.killfile.org>
 <ghn3jh$klv$1@vulture.killfile.org>
- Steve Bonine, <spb@pobox.com>
 <6pts4lF9snotU1@mid.individual.net>
 <6q4r3vFahe60U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6q079uFa8066U1@mid.individual.net>
 <UaGdnZBTO8FUs6DUnZ2dnUVZ_s3inZ2d@deskmedia.com>
 <gNKdnUYRW4Ee7qHUnZ2dnUVZ_qTinZ2d@deskmedia.com>
 <-uWdnbG8EpY0laLUnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@deskmedia.com>
 <8b-dnTqrormnl6LUnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@deskmedia.com>
- Gary L. Burnore, <gburnore@databasix.com>
 <ghe962$ira$2@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
 <ghh2ib$etd$2@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
 <ghh2sp$etd$5@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
 <ghkuvp$cea$2@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
 <ghh2ff$etd$1@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
 <ghh2tt$etd$6@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
- Kathy Morgan, <kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irj49d.1gpvwzt4jj992N%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irj79t.1fccqeez7cno3N%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irf16p.13f12531te2kn3N%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irjrvr.grti7f1ehingrN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irkyeb.17xandf1r1em9zN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1iriu4r.6p0ssh1ivkdpzN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irdgyl.1t0itc0cvtsdkN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irft5k.ivirb4lp8yc1N%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irjsw3.13nezbx1dtlrlzN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irleok.1ixj7w31j1dal5N%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irnjf2.hpfen0njiyjoN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
 <1irotkn.1lniszk1cvfjhuN%kmorgan@spamcop.net>
- Peter J Ross, <pjr@example.invalid>
 <slrngjdio9.ufk.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjegj3.ufk.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjdqfj.ufk.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngje61i.ufk.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjeh6i.ufk.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngje79l.ufk.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjpv20.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjpv7r.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjpub5.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjquus.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjq07l.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjqvu3.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
 <slrngjr1ar.9ne.pjr@pjr.motzarella.org>
- "Adam H. Kerman", <ahk@chinet.com>
 <gh6q4t$8lf$1@aioe.org>
 <gh7eh0$mhs$1@aioe.org>
 <gh7g2e$qm9$1@aioe.org>
 <gh9erm$obn$1@aioe.org>
 <gh9mhg$m51$1@aioe.org>
 <ghd6iq$1cq$2@aioe.org>
 <ghadkr$l7q$1@aioe.org>
 <ghfrih$mvl$1@aioe.org>
 <ghi73c$i3c$2@aioe.org>
 <ghmkr4$9q3$1@aioe.org>
 <ghi8ed$qd2$1@aioe.org>
 <ghjpi3$tso$1@aioe.org>


OTHER COMMENTERS (for or against not determinable):  8
- Jeremy Nixon, <Curry.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE!~$!~@u.defocus.net>
 <6q3h8cFadud2U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6q3iltFaitk2U1@mid.individual.net>
 <6pr48tF9j8b7U1@mid.individual.net>
- Doug Freyburger, <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
 <491dcd18-6ac7-4f4d-9b59-dc1bccb5d8d8@n10g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
- Brian Mailman, <bmailman@sfo.invalid>
 <MZudnS7CA4XveavUnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <wMqdnVOuFOITq6XUnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <JYudnUp3HppFqaXUnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <wMqdnVCuFOJWqKXUnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <wMqdnVKuFOK9qqXUnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <D7WdnQSTt43yVafUnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@supernews.com>
 <K7qdnV4GFsL796DUnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@supernews.com>
 <tLOdnYtMB6vyNaPUnZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@supernews.com>
 <hZqdnRHs9ra6pKHUnZ2dnUVZ_qLinZ2d@supernews.com>
 <r46dnf6Ob-ik8aDUnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@supernews.com>
- William Bagwell, <321nospam@tds.net>
 <eq5ej4hcgfmtr8f9dbhel2pgsqcu03ummg@4ax.com>
 <v2vgj4hie3mmb9upicpr5bogb0sblgfgri@4ax.com>
- Art Deco, <erfc-1024@usa.net>
 <061220082002569543%erfc-1024@usa.net>
 <061220082000401372%erfc-1024@usa.net>
 <071220081900439691%erfc-1024@usa.net>
 <071220081555051425%erfc-1024@usa.net>
- pandora, <pandora@peak.org>
 <pan.2008.12.08.01.09.31.418429@peak.org>
 <pan.2008.12.08.00.57.43.937829@peak.org>
- dvus, <doug@dvenator.com.invalid>
 <6q4o7gFaio96U1@mid.individual.net>
- Alexander Bartolich, <alexander.bartolich@gmx.at>
 <ghhqei$1vo$1@news.albasani.net>

END OF RFD.
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