From: Jim Riley <>
Subject: RFD: news.groups.removals
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, news.groups.proposals
Followup-To: news.groups.proposals
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:46:36 -0500

                      REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
                 unmoderated group news.groups.removals

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
unmoderated Usenet newsgroup, news.groups.removals.

NEWSGROUPS LINE: news.groups.removals

news.groups.removals	Discussion of proposed newsgroup removals.

RATIONALE: news.groups.removals

This proposed newsgroup is complementary to implementation of the
proposed policy for removing extremely low-traffic unmoderated
newsgroups that is currently being discussed in news.groups.proposals.

When a newsgroup is proposed for removal, it is an imperative that any
users of the newsgroup have the opportunity to discuss and understand
the reasons for removal, to object to the group's removal, or to
propose alternatives to removal.

Currently, discussion of newsgroup removals occurs in
news.groups.proposals (NGP), a moderated newsgroup.  If NGP does not
exist on a particular user's news server, then it is difficult, if not
impossible for the user to submit their articles for approval.
Further, some objections removing a newsgroup may not satisfy NGP
standards of civility.  If someone fears that "their group" is about
to be removed, they may not express their opinion in the most polite
manner, but they should not be excluded from the discussion.

An unmoderated newsgroup, news.groups.removals, addresses these two
issues.  As an unmoderated newsgroup, articles would not need to be
approved.  In addition, discussion will be cross-posted between
news.groups.removals and the candidate group for removal.  This will
ensure propagation of articles, even if news.groups.removals does not
exist on some news servers.  The cross-posting of the discussion to
the candidate group will maximize visibility of a proposed newsgroup

While there is less utility in having an unmoderated management group
for discussion of a proposed removal of a moderated newsgroup,
news.groups.removals will be used for such proposals to avoid
confusion over the name or which group is to be used.

While the unmoderated newsgroup news.groups could also serve the role,
I think it is preferable to have a newsgroup for specific proposed
removals that parallels the use of news.groups.proposals.  news.groups
would continue to be used for more general discussion about
newsgroups, including overall policy issues, etc.


The newsgroup news.groups.removals is used for discussion of proposed
removal of specific Big-8 newsgroups.  Only removals that have been
formally proposed in news.announce.newgroups shall be discussed.

Discussion relating to policies regarding newsgroup removals,
tentative discussion of potential newsgroup removals, etc. should
occur in news.groups.

Discussion relating to newsgroup removals that are part of a larger
re-organization should be posted in news.groups.proposals.  The
moderators of news.groups.proposals may approve cross-posts to
news.groups.removals about those parts of a re-organization that
relate specifically to the removal of a newsgroup.

Discussion about the removal of a specific unmoderated newsgroup
should be cross-posted between the newsgroup proposed for removal and
news.groups.removals.  RFD's proposing removals should set the
Followup-To header to the two groups.  Other relevant newsgroups may
be included in a cross-post.

Discussion about the removal of a specific moderated newsgroup should
be posted to news.groups.removals.  Other relevant newsgroups may be
included in a cross-post.


For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup.  This is both a courtesy to groups in
which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the best
method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to news.groups.proposals.
To this end, the 'Followup-To' header of this RFD has been set to this group.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID
(e.g., Barney Fife, <>).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.


This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:



Jim Riley <>


2007-06-28     1st RFD